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Clive3
04-20-2004, 10:41 AM
Well i thought that asking this might give us some ideas on how we can Spread the name of The FIxx and get them more tlaked aobut in the Social lives of today...

shelby
04-20-2004, 03:41 PM
Hi Clive,

I don't think I could just vote for one of those options. I think a huge reason is because their music doesn't appeal to kids today who have large disposable incomes to spend on music (no offense to you my young friend!). I'm starting to believe the music industry tells people what they want to hear, and not vice versa, and that is what drives sales.

Clive3
04-20-2004, 06:21 PM
None taken, i agree with you.... That plays a big part when it comes to selling music....


Clive

Fixxation
04-20-2004, 10:11 PM
Hello All,

I have to agree with Shelby about the music industry. However, we also are still in the "prime demographic" and we need to support bands like The Fixx. Look what has happened with Rod Stewart and Harry Connick Jr. have brought back the Standards. I personally do not like it but it has an appeal to the early Baby Boomers.

The music industry made a "Pop Star" out of Jessica Simpson. Need I say more.

Fixxation

Octopulse
04-21-2004, 11:38 AM
ya and look at William Hung, sure hes a nice guy, sure he has a good attitude, but he cant sing, but he got a major record contract and music video production deal anyway, if his record ships more units than great artistry such as WTL, Ide call it a damned shame on the industry alright.

Fixxation
04-21-2004, 08:02 PM
Hello All.

Octopulse you could not have said it better. At times I am ashamed to be an American. How does a no talent like William Hung make money and get a record deal? The Fixx have to go through the wringer to release an album. Someone once said, "fool the American people and you can make a million dollars." You would think that "we wont get fooled again."

This is an injustice. We do speak with our dollars and I hope that everyone who visits this site has all The Fixx albums. If you have some of their records buy the cd. I repurchased Reach The Beach the 20th anniversary. (For Clive records were what existed before CD's) Just kidding Clive. I am working on repurchasing the remastered cd's as well.

Take Care,

Fixxation

TommyBoy
04-23-2004, 04:10 PM
Every Now And Then A Group Tends To Be More Appreciated In Other Countries Apart From Their Own.
In This Regard I'm Not Talking About The Fans But The Music And Radio Stations Who's PlayList's Are More Geared To Pop Culture.

When I First Heard "Some People" And Saw The Vid On TV I Thought"Yeah This Band's Good" And Was Sure That They Would Make Regular Indentations In The Music Charts.
But The Lack Of Airplay In England Has Stifled THe Fixx Somewhat.
It Seems To My Mind They Have More Recognition In The States.
Or To Put It Another Way.

We All Could Name Some Great English Footballers Who Deserved But Never Played For Their Country.

Cy Curnin Would Be Proud Of That One:D

Fixxation
04-24-2004, 01:13 AM
Hello All,

It is funny that The Fixx have done better in the US than in Europe. Having grown up in Canada, it was frustrating that good talented bands could not "make it" in the USA.

The Fixx have not been your a typical band so why should it surprise anyone that they are more popular in the USA. If you think back to the 80's, they did not fit the mold. Remember Mike Score's hairdo of Flock of Seagulls etc.

Fixxation

xxif
05-08-2004, 09:51 PM
Yes,the music industry HAS changed drastically(I think we can pretty much all agree,for the WORSE),and yes,today's young listeners(I use the word "listener" very loosely;most people merely HEAR music passively,and not actually LISTEN to it engagingly nowadays,it seems) do not find music from the likes of the Fixx appealing in any way. But The Fixx are hardly the only victims of cruel neglect. And I've got to be perfectly honest here. I'm not sure neglecting The Fixx is an unwise inclination.

First of all,most people(particularly those under the age of 30) don't know they even exist. And those who enjoyed their hits from the early to mid 80's,for the most part,would be surprised to hear The Fixx are still chugging along,having moved on long ago to the next trendy sound a la Top 40(which is today fraught with absolute crap,save perhaps one or two decent songs doing well commercially).

But these examples are beside the point. The Fixx,ultimately,are not incredibly good. Granted,I've yet to hear "Want That Life",but the impression I'm getting is that it is hardly blowing minds,save perhaps those completely biased fans(a specialized minority) utterly lacking any aesthetic objectivity.

You're probably thinking: "Well then,what the hell are you doing here,if you don't like The Fixx?!" Because a part of me DOES like the band,but more out of nostalgia. The last Fixx album I heard was 98's "Elemental". This was a thoroughly disappointing album,with the exception of a couple good tracks-"Happy Landings",actually,is a great song,but overall,the album is considerably weak.

The Fixx album that clearly sticks out for me,both personally and aesthetically,is "Reach The Beach".This is one of the most important albums of my youth(admittedly,for subjective and arbitrary reasons,than not).But it's no coincidence that this 1983 album is usually singled out as their best and most remembered. They could not top it with subsequent releases,regardless of whatever tracks appearing on those later albums stood out(there has always been at least a few redeemable songs on an otherwise weak Fixx album).

Far better bands/artists than The Fixx have been predominately doomed to obscurity;some to the delight of the precious,insular hipster-posing,elitist audiophiles listening to them religiously,as these "sub-cultures" are wont to do,but that's another issue altogether.

Some of these bands/artists,from the past,as well as present are: Broadcast, Pram, Split Enz, Talk Talk(especially their later works), The Icicle Works, Pavement, Yo La Tengo, O.M.D., Big Star, XTC, Stereolab, Lush, The Jayhawks, Chalk Circle(one of Canada's best 80's bands), The Grapes of Wrath(ibid), Guided By Voices, Quasi, Patti Smith, The Jam, My Bloody Valentine, The Modern Lovers, The Fall, etc,etc, friggin' etc!!!

I certainly do not wish any ill-will towards The Fixx.I would genuinely like to "like" their later stuff,but I honestly feel the essential sum of The Fixx legacy(if it could really be called that) is their first four albums:"Shuttered Room", "Reach The Beach", "Phantoms", and "Walkabout".None of these could possibly be compared to the bonafide classics by: The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin, The Police, U2, The Clash, Joni Mitchell, Radiohead, Nirvana, Prince, Talking Heads, etc,but that doesn't mean those Fixx albums weren't enjoyable all the same.But socially and artistically speaking, the Fixx never really mattered.

If The Fixx matter to you,than that's your preogative,but don't be surprised by their being unfairly neglected by the majority of music "consumers",let alone those who are more informed and cultivated,in terms of taste.

Fixxation
05-08-2004, 11:45 PM
Dear xxif.

Luckily I believe in free Speech so I believe if an ill informed pompus person like you should be able to state their opinion. The vast majority of people on this web site disagree with your rantings.

Thanks for your comments. You remind me of "Charlie Tuna." Thanks for sharing your opinion. I will offer you a challenge see The Fixx live and than tell me what you think.

Fixxation

xxif
05-09-2004, 12:38 AM
Fixxation,

My,we ARE a little touchy and defensive aren't we?

Like a dutiful patriot towards their country(simply for no other reason than just being born there),you defend your (favourite?) band;right or wrong,I see...how typical.

Even though I said that I actually have a degree of appreciation for The Fixx,you still deemed it justifiable to refer to me as a "jackass"?

Get a reversed lobotomy will ya?

And some good taste while you're at it.


p.s.-despite your rather asinine response,I'd still go see The Fixx live if the opportunity presented itself,again out of pure nostalgia;but I highly doubt it would convert me to include them in the rock'n'roll canon(look it up,ignoramus).

wink

Fixxation
05-09-2004, 01:19 AM
Dear Fixxtures,

Let me formally apologize to all Fixxtures for calling xxif a Jack ***. Although xxif is a Jack ***, we Fixxtures do not resort to name calling. Xxif please do not let me calling you a Jack *** reflect on this website nor the people who frequent it.

Xxif. why don't you go back to the Backstreet Boys website where you came from? You are such an expert on the Fixx because you listened to Elemental in 1998. Do you write for Rolling Stone? Because you seem to be a music aficionado.

Oh! and I did look up "ignoramus" in Webster's Dictionary. All I found was a picture of you.

Again, please accept my deepest apologies Fixxtures. We do not resort to name calling. And I know I should not have called xxif a Jack ***.

Fixxation

Octopulse
05-09-2004, 08:35 AM
from xxif....
Even though I said that I actually have a degree of appreciation for The Fixx,you still deemed it justifiable to refer to me as a "jackass"?xxif .. do you know the difference between an opinion and an insult? If you wanna bring in an opinion thats wonderful, we love opinions, but to lay a blanket statement like this on us ....




from xxif....
If The Fixx matter to you,than that's your preogative,but don't be surprised by their being unfairly neglected by the majority of music "consumers",let alone those who are more informed and cultivated,in terms of taste..... Is asking for just the type of response you received



uninformed .. uncultivated .. poor taste

gee .... I think Ive just been insulted

I second the nomination .... hee haw .. hee haw

Fixxation
05-09-2004, 12:15 PM
Hello Octo,

Thanks for your response. I was wondering where the Fixxtures were. I am sorry that I let this fool get me involved in an insulting contest. Your are absolutely right! Opinions are welcomed. Insults are for Flame groups and other websites.

Thanks again and as always you are right on!

Fixxation

STUART
05-09-2004, 01:54 PM
xxif,

A cynic is a person who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Oscar Wilde.

Could have been written especially for you.

xxif
05-09-2004, 08:51 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fixxation
[B]Dear Fixxtures,

Let me formally apologize to all Fixxtures for calling xxif a Jack ***. Although xxif is a Jack ***, we Fixxtures do not resort to name calling. Xxif please do not let me calling you a Jack *** reflect on this website nor the people who frequent it.

Xxif. why don't you go back to the Backstreet Boys website where you came from? You are such an expert on the Fixx because you listened to Elemental in 1998. Do you write for Rolling Stone? Because you seem to be a music aficionado.

Oh! and I did look up "ignoramus" in Webster's Dictionary. All I found was a picture of you.

Again, please accept my deepest apologies Fixxtures. We do not resort to name calling. And I know I should not have called xxif a Jack ***.


Fixxation and,ahem,...Fixxtures,

Please read my entire post before you justify a response. Thank you.

Dear god man(or miss/people),have you ANY idea how unbelievably hypocritical you are? And did you even bother to read my entire post? Because you contradicted me and yourself several times,not to mention,misconstruing my syntax in the last sentence of my post-script that went:..."rock'n'roll canon(look it up,ignoramus)."

I was refering to the word "canon",NOT "ignoramus"(I believe I said "look it up,ignoramus",and not"look up ignoramus").I gave you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you,at least,understood THAT word(i.e.-ignoramus).Pardon my pedantry,but how could you possibly "find a picture of me" in the dictionary,with the word "ignoramus",when you have no idea what I look like? And one of you had the nerve to suggest that I am a "cynic"? In the end ,you just reinforced my accusing you of being an "ignoramus";thanks for the unintended(?) confirmation.

Typically in keeping with overly-protective/defensive tactics,I see this particular thread is,apparently,too controversial and subversive for the main discussion forum(we wouldn't want to frighten the children,would we?);so much so,you or whoever curates this web-site,felt it necessary to unceremoniously move this thread over to the less visited "Sign of Fire" forum(I'm honored).You had me going there for a minute.I actually thought you people had the anti-democratic gall to delete this thread altogether! That wouldn't be very representative of your so-called belief in: FREEDOM OF SPEECH,now would it? Conversely,however,you people implemented a subtle form of "censorship" simply to appease your sensitive,collective narcissism(and your necessary illusions). But guess what? I found you. What are you so afraid of? I feel it may be that you(unconsciously)dread the possibility that I might "start making sense" to you;the result of which could bring about a potentially catastrophic paradox that could crumble the very ideology of your precious Fixx devotion(or cult?-"we Fixxtures"??).

The perception here could be that I'm percieved as the "Anti-Fixx"(forgive me if I seem dramatically over-the-top here,but I really feel the religious analogy is accurate to the point I'm making). But I'm NOT the "Anti-Fixx",I'm the "Anti-Ideological Fixx"(in the here and now sense; because there are many other people who can't stand the band;blasphemy,right?! I can feel your horrified cringes,and fundamentalist cries of outrage.)

I want to go on record here by stating that: I LIKE THE FIXX! I really do;in spite of your flagrant oversight of my mentioning how important the album "Reach The Beach" was to me as a teenager. "Elemental" is hardly the only Fixx album I've heard.I said(or at least suggested) it was the "latest" one I heard.The only Fixx album I have yet to hear is their new one:"Want That Life". In the 80's The Fixx were unequivocally one of my favourite bands. I had every album up to :"Calm Animals". But after that 1988 release,my range of musical tastes expanded considerably,and subsequently,I cultivated my knowledge and understanding of the rock'n'roll era, et al,from an artistically critical standpoint . This is why I asserted that "The Fixx never mattered". I wasn't suggesting that The Fixx haven't or can't matter to a marginalized devout following. It's pretty obvious that they most certainly DO matter to all of you. But you can't possibly believe The Fixx have had the sort of cultural impact of bands like: The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Sex Pistols, The Police, R.E.M., Nirvana, Radiohead, or even(I hate to admit it)Marilyn Manson and Limp Bizkit. Be reasonable.

Ultimately,that doesn't mean you haven't the constitutional right to pick and choose your own favourite bands/movies/books/whatever.But there are specific "contexts" to consider here that go beyond the safe-haven,cultural relativity of personal opinion,whether you like it or not,I'm afraid. People have been judging/rating culture(nowadays,pop-culture as well) since the times of ancient Greece;it's how we come to know and understand our society,past,present,and future projections. Aristotle's essay;"Poetics",to my knowledge,is the earliest example of cultural criticism. In this monumental work he was critically analysing "theatre". We all know,for better(me)or worse(you),that our current cultural society is rife with professional criticism spaning across all cultural mediums:music,cinema,fashion,politics,literature,p hilosophy,comic books even- Ebert and Roeper rating films,and Rolling Stone reviewing albums,for instance(by the way Fixxation,I obviously am a music aficionado,and damn well SHOULD be writing for Rolling Stone magazine;maybe then they could retrieve some of their lost reputation;your perception here proves you're not completely oblivious,so kudos to you). Judging(as objectively and impartially as possible,and with a required wide-ranging overview and knowledge of said medium being covered;this discipline is not a myth,contrary to popular[typical]opinion)is an unavoidable aspect of our civilization,everybody does it;that's how we differentiate one thing from another.You people have done it by marginalizing all "other" bands in favour of The Fixx,out of purely subjective reasoning,and in turn,have invested "a part" of your respective identities into an ideological framework of unconditional devotion for this synth-laden,80's throwback called The Fixx. The Fixx,in turn,project back(especially in concert,because their presence intensifies your ideological experience,and that's why you said to see them live before I can judge them)an idealized image and affirmation of your collective celebration,in the truly communal sense(many of your "community"(?)members go see The Fixx together,right?;I've seen some of your group photos,at a concert,on this site). You'll be relieved to be informed that your case is not an isolated phenomenon.Many,many other websites devoted to some singled-out cultural musician(s),celebrity,ideology,etc,fall under similar findings,and behavior.

These are psychological processes at play here,and it doesn't surprise me that most of you are oblivious of these under-currents,actively operating in you. And you all wouldn't want it any other way,would you? For you,ignorance is truly bliss(irony notwithstanding,I'm sure). And you'll be able to successfully immune yourself to my analysis,because your respective ego's will demand it. You'll just cast me aside as a raving lunatic anyways;people like you have been doing it to people like me for time immemorial. I know this ,and that's why I've taken the liberty of presenting this unbridled expose.

But let's get back to the initial provocation of my posting on this thread: WHY ARE THE FIXX NOT APPRECIATED MORE? I conclude that this is a grossly naive question to ask,and anybody who is tenably informed of the musical landscape would know better than to ask such an insipid question. But because you people are blatantly limited in your tastes(on purpose?),it comes as no surprise that such a biased question would be insisted.

"...go back to the Backstreet Boys website where you came from"? That was hilarious,and I assume you were being ironic,if you have any clue in you head,whatever your malicious intention;in the end,you came across puerilely.Is that the best you got?

And your so-called "formal apology" debunked any sense of integrity,when you reiterated "xxif is a jackass" in your very next sentence.I hope it was a flagrant misrepresentation of your fellow "Fixxtures",contrary to your claim on their behalf. Admittedly,I may come across as pompous.I'm not without ego,myself.I realize,and fully admit it,but suggesting that I'm "ill-informed" is outright laughable. I can back up my argument,can you?

Octopulse
05-10-2004, 06:40 AM
from xxif.....

Fixxation and,ahem,...Fixxtures,

Please read my entire post before you justify a response. Thank you.

Dear god man(or miss/people),have you ANY idea how unbelievably hypocritical you are? And did you even bother to read my entire post? Because you contradicted me and yourself several times,not to mention,misconstruing my syntax in the last sentence of my post-script that went:..."rock'n'roll canon(look it up,ignoramus)."

I was refering to the word "canon",NOT "ignoramus"(I believe I said "look it up,ignoramus",and not"look up ignoramus").I gave you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you,at least,understood THAT word(i.e.-ignoramus).Pardon my pedantry,but how could you possibly "find a picture of me" in the dictionary,with the word "ignoramus",when you have no idea what I look like? And one of you had the nerve to suggest that I am a "cynic"? In the end ,you just reinforced my accusing you of being an "ignoramus";thanks for the unintended(?) confirmation.

Typically in keeping with overly-protective/defensive tactics,I see this particular thread is,apparently,too controversial and subversive for the main discussion forum(we wouldn't want to frighten the children,would we?);so much so,you or whoever curates this web-site,felt it necessary to unceremoniously move this thread over to the less visited "Sign of Fire" forum(I'm honored).You had me going there for a minute.I actually thought you people had the anti-democratic gall to delete this thread altogether! That wouldn't be very representative of your so-called belief in: FREEDOM OF SPEECH,now would it? Conversely,however,you people implemented a subtle form of "censorship" simply to appease your sensitive,collective narcissism(and your necessary illusions). But guess what? I found you. What are you so afraid of? I feel it may be that you(unconsciously)dread the possibility that I might "start making sense" to you;the result of which could bring about a potentially catastrophic paradox that could crumble the very ideology of your precious Fixx devotion(or cult?-"we Fixxtures"??).

The perception here could be that I'm percieved as the "Anti-Fixx"(forgive me if I seem dramatically over-the-top here,but I really feel the religious analogy is accurate to the point I'm making). But I'm NOT the "Anti-Fixx",I'm the "Anti-Ideological Fixx"(in the here and now sense; because there are many other people who can't stand the band;blasphemy,right?! I can feel your horrified cringes,and fundamentalist cries of outrage.)

I want to go on record here by stating that: I LIKE THE FIXX! I really do;in spite of your flagrant oversight of my mentioning how important the album "Reach The Beach" was to me as a teenager. "Elemental" is hardly the only Fixx album I've heard.I said(or at least suggested) it was the "latest" one I heard.The only Fixx album I have yet to hear is their new one:"Want That Life". In the 80's The Fixx were unequivocally one of my favourite bands. I had every album up to :"Calm Animals". But after that 1988 release,my range of musical tastes expanded considerably,and subsequently,I cultivated my knowledge and understanding of the rock'n'roll era, et al,from an artistically critical standpoint . This is why I asserted that "The Fixx never mattered". I wasn't suggesting that The Fixx haven't or can't matter to a marginalized devout following. It's pretty obvious that they most certainly DO matter to all of you. But you can't possibly believe The Fixx have had the sort of cultural impact of bands like: The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Sex Pistols, The Police, R.E.M., Nirvana, Radiohead, or even(I hate to admit it)Marilyn Manson and Limp Bizkit. Be reasonable.

Ultimately,that doesn't mean you haven't the constitutional right to pick and choose your own favourite bands/movies/books/whatever.But there are specific "contexts" to consider here that go beyond the safe-haven,cultural relativity of personal opinion,whether you like it or not,I'm afraid. People have been judging/rating culture(nowadays,pop-culture as well) since the times of ancient Greece;it's how we come to know and understand our society,past,present,and future projections. Aristotle's essay;"Poetics",to my knowledge,is the earliest example of cultural criticism. In this monumental work he was critically analysing "theatre". We all know,for better(me)or worse(you),that our current cultural society is rife with professional criticism spaning across all cultural mediums:music,cinema,fashion,politics,literature,p
hilosophy,comic books even- Ebert and Roeper rating films,and Rolling Stone reviewing albums,for instance(by the way Fixxation,I obviously am a music aficionado,and damn well SHOULD be writing for Rolling Stone magazine;maybe then they could retrieve some of their lost reputation;your perception here proves you're not completely oblivious,so kudos to you). Judging(as objectively and impartially as possible,and with a required wide-ranging overview and knowledge of said medium being covered;this discipline is not a myth,contrary to popular[typical]opinion)is an unavoidable aspect of our civilization,everybody does it;that's how we differentiate one thing from another.You people have done it by marginalizing all "other" bands in favour of The Fixx,out of purely subjective reasoning,and in turn,have invested "a part" of your respective identities into an ideological framework of unconditional devotion for this synth-laden,80's throwback called The Fixx. The Fixx,in turn,project back(especially in concert,because their presence intensifies your ideological experience,and that's why you said to see them live before I can judge them)an idealized image and affirmation of your collective celebration,in the truly communal sense(many of your "community"(?)members go see The Fixx together,right?;I've seen some of your group photos,at a concert,on this site). You'll be relieved to be informed that your case is not an isolated phenomenon.Many,many other websites devoted to some singled-out cultural musician(s),celebrity,ideology,etc,fall under similar findings,and behavior.

These are psychological processes at play here,and it doesn't surprise me that most of you are oblivious of these under-currents,actively operating in you. And you all wouldn't want it any other way,would you? For you,ignorance is truly bliss(irony notwithstanding,I'm sure). And you'll be able to successfully immune yourself to my analysis,because your respective ego's will demand it. You'll just cast me aside as a raving lunatic anyways;people like you have been doing it to people like me for time immemorial. I know this ,and that's why I've taken the liberty of presenting this unbridled expose.

But let's get back to the initial provocation of my posting on this thread: WHY ARE THE FIXX NOT APPRECIATED MORE? I conclude that this is a grossly naive question to ask,and anybody who is tenably informed of the musical landscape would know better than to ask such an insipid question. But because you people are blatantly limited in your tastes(on purpose?),it comes as no surprise that such a biased question would be insisted.

"...go back to the Backstreet Boys website where you came from"? That was hilarious,and I assume you were being ironic,if you have any clue in you head,whatever your malicious intention;in the end,you came across puerilely.Is that the best you got?

And your so-called "formal apology" debunked any sense of integrity,when you reiterated "xxif is a jackass" in your very next sentence.I hope it was a flagrant misrepresentation of your fellow "Fixxtures",contrary to your claim on their behalf. Admittedly,I may come across as pompous.I'm not without ego,myself.I realize,and fully admit it,but suggesting that I'm "ill-informed" is outright laughable. I can back up my argument,can you?


........
........

Whew ................

Can I get off the couch now Dr.?

Thank you

Ya know sumthin' .. I once knew a Clinical Psychologist at Boston University, a very intelligent and educated young man he was, he had perfect hair he did, he also had a office in the same building as his father, the young man spent all his time analyzing other people, and not nearly enough time analyzing himself, the words that come to mind when I think of him now are .. daddy's little fruitcake.

Thanks for your dissertations, Ive read both more than once, but .. Im not into debating you, I have my own lunacy to deal with right now.

But ..... for the author of this thread, who unlike you, knows less about bloated proclamations; and more about being humble, pleasant, engaging, and dare I say it ... humane, I will now return the favor given us and provide my diagnosis of your present condition ....

You have an Axis 1 .. 296.3745 .... TJS .. aka Trolling Jackass Syndrome .. your specific case demonstrates intermitant and borderline explosive expression brought on by ideations of false superlativeness, your condition is presently active, serious in nature, and in need of some serious decompression

xxif
05-10-2004, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by Octopulse
........
........

Whew ................

Can I get off the couch now Dr.?

Thank you

Ya know sumthin' .. I once met a Clinical Psychologist at Boston University, a very intelligent and educated young man he was, he had perfect hair he did, he also had a office in the same building as his fathers, the young man spent all his time analyzing other people, and not nearly enough time analyzing himself, the words that comes to mind when I think of him now are .. daddy's little fruitcake.

Thanks for your dissertation, Ive read both more than once, but .. Im not into debating you, I have my own lunacy to deal with right now.

But ..... for the author of this thread, who unlike yourself, knows less about fancy ideas and wording; and more about being humble, nice, and dare I say it ... humane, I will now return the favor and provide my diagnosis of your present condition ....

You have an Axis 1 .. 296.3745 .. TJS .. Trolling Jackass Syndrome .. intermitently explosive with ideations of superlativeness .. presently active and pre-decomp

Octopulse,

Of course,you're "not into debating me". You haven't the proper resources,nor the mental capacity to do so(and what's with"...my own lunacy to deal with"?;man,you're presumptous). Slagging me off with that pointless "...daddy's little fruitcake" anecdote was really rich-bravo. And your so-called-what's good for the goose is good for the gander- technically-termed,"kiss-off" was an exercise in futility(intermittently explosive?-you people and your desperately,defensive exaggerations!)-I bet you're a sci-fi fan too,aren't you,my little Data/H.A.L.-wanna-be?("...an Axis 1..296.3745..TJS??-Oh,please). So I'm "passionate" about issues like the one under current fire(because there's no real semblance of any genuinely intelligent DISCUSSION here being reciprocated);contrary to your calling my post a "dissertation",I'm addressing those who participate at this forum in a non-official register(not a symposium panel),regardless of how(apparently,to a fault)articulate I'm coming across;so I show some(albeit,negative,from your p.o.v.) emotion,big deal,I'm human;and I actually CARE about what's happening in this world,externally AND internally,in terms of society as a WHOLE,and not just from my own subjective being(contrary to your implied insinuation via your anecdotal preamble). That's the problem with ignorant people like you,you go around with the insane delusion that you're intelligent and cultivated,then have the nerve to denigrate someone who does have the tenable ability to convey themselves coherently,by displaying an impressive command of language(in this case,english,of course).

If the initial "author" of this naive post knows "less about fancy ideas and wording"(this is so typical a clause by those afraid of admitting their own ignorance,and lack of frames-of-reference),then why did he bother to think The Fixx deserve any social value and discussion/appreciation outside the already well established fan-base at this web-site? Where's the justification?Where's the proof? This is my ONLY(other than your weak and immature responses)issue here at this(otherwise,impressive:no condescension intended) web-site.

I suspect the so-called "proof" implied here is simply because YOU people believe The Fixx deserve more recognition,because YOU people love the band with blind(or "bad"as Sartre called it) faith,and simply assume that YOUR choice of taste is the "right" one,the "true" one. And that is not a valid critical opinion;it's a BIASED one. Can you possibly comprehend that? I am NOT deliberately trying to insult you people! I'm trying to reason with you via my(albeit,heated some)argument.The impression I get here at this site is that the "implicit stipulation",in order to be accepted with cordiality,is that one must unconditionally love The Fixx without any questioned devotion,like a pious christian never doubt's The Bible's authenticity. This constitutes as a prejudiced,discriminating ideology,purposely bounded by strict tenets of unwavering belief,to the detriment of all other opposing views and beliefs.

As I,honestly,professed earlier,I really do "like" The Fixx,but I don't "love" them.There are many,many other bands/artists that I enjoy and respect more,whom I also feel are more talented and relevent than The Fixx,and I will gladly debate it. I'm not saying The Fixx are untalented. They most certainly are!"Reach The Beach" is truly a solid album with several 80's standards on it. And I think "I Will",from '84's "Phantoms" is one of their best songs ever;"Wish" is quite good too. Jesus! I still get a shimmer down my spine when ever I hear "Secret Separtion";I love Jamie West-Oram's driving guitar lick on that excellent song. Actually,I think "Walkabout" is The Fixx's second best album after "Reach...". And Cy Curnin is a pretty good lyricist;he's no Bob Dylan for sure,but a decent one nonetheless,maybe even a little under-rated,but not to an extreme.

If there is no one here conscientiously willing enough to engage in a properly conducted debate,then there's little point in continuing(I'm sure you'll be relieved to read). We'll just have to acknowledge a mutual impasse,and simply agree to disagree.

Today's corporately-driven,democratic process has surreptitiously(hence,brilliantly,but no less diabolically) convinced the masses(particularly,the ignorant majority) that any and all opinions are valid,and that narcissism is a good thing(notice lately how commercials are directed towards catering to one's exclusionary,selfish ego?). I suspect most of you people are ordinary,office-working conformists,who for the most part do not question their reality,and are proficient consumers of the innocuous mainstream. You're all well behaved,from effective conditioning.

Oh,and being "humble,nice and dare I say it...humane" is not synonomous with valid debate. Get over yourself,you self-righteous cretin.

Octopulse
05-10-2004, 04:58 PM
d-e-c-o-m-p-r-e-s-s

Ive been doing it with Heinys lately, again

my advise to you xxif would be coming back in with a few less "you's" and "youre's" .. your points about the band dont bother me at all .. but what you infer about the people here does .. try to have a better day tomorrow .. hmmmmm

jim
05-10-2004, 05:34 PM
Here's a good place for little Jimmy from Wisconsin to enter this entanglement.

At first read, I agreed with about half of what xxif had to say. Yes, today's listeners are different. When I was in high school some of us listened to entire albums and bands made albums that had ebbs and flows, and songs that worked into each other, and albums that shifted in style but flowed together in some hypnotic, gracious way. We listened to find the hidden gems on an album that a radio station might find too intricate or not commercial enough to play. We relished the treasures that we found. Songs like "outside" or "opinions" that had a beauty that went beyond the 3 minute single. In my opinion, everyone found "One thing leads to another", but barely anyone found "opinions" or "Outside". And they missed the gems.

Today's kiddies still have the disposable income, but they spend it on cell phones and other such crap. And they download the HITS from their groups and rarely buy cd's. Record sales prove that point.

I agree with xxif about today's listeners being different. And to some extent I agree that the Fixx pinnacle was Reach the Beach. I think he somewhat underestimates the influence of "One thing", "Saved by zero", etc. They were easily two of the biggest songs of 80's pop and that is no small accomplishment. To be touring stadiums and playing to 10's of thousands every concert is no little matter. I believe that Reach was one of the better albums of the 80's.

Now to the disagreements with xxif:

1. "not incredibly good"- do you mean sales wise, or as musicians, or as songwriters, or what ?

I would agree that record sales since Reach aren't great, but in total this band has sold millions of records (once again, no small feat)

As musicians, I would say, go see a concert and see for yourself.

As for songwriters, I feel the Fixx is an important band because they write social and political songs that address the human condition. Their lack of popularity might just be because they don't do the "love song" or the "sexual innuendo" stuff. But few bands have so graciously tackled nuclear buildup, military and politics, and the environment as the Fixx. I think that is their mark of greatness and the reason I feel they are underrated.

2. Does anyone compare with the damn Beatles:No !!!! Other than Elvis. All the names you mention are the Gods of Rock n' Roll. I don't think that people here are saying that the Fixx has had the social importance of Dylan or the Beatles or Zepplin. But neither has anyone else.

BTW, I think Nirvana is overrated because of Cobain's death, I know I'm a heretic.

I would argue that both U2 and REM are OVERRATED. I like both bands, but the Joshua Tree elevated U2 to some mythic level that they never achieved before or after. And REM was glamorized by a whole generation of people who thought they were the only one "deep" enough to understand and like their music. In it's time "Reach the Beach" was on the same level as any U2 or REM album except "Joshua Tree". Sales wise, singles wise, popularity wise- it just is.

3. The Fixx plays to intellect and open mindedness, not angst or bigotry. Half or more of todays popular bands are just raising the angst banner to the unhappy "cell phone toting, my parents don't understand" crowd. Marilyn Manson is the perfect example.

4. The Fixx never sold out. Yes the Police were once a bigger act, Sting a musical genius. But has totally sold out. His last 3 albums suck. The Fixx has remained a vital band, even if the sales don't back it up.


I am not trying to be negative xxif. I am not so touchy to see that the Fixx has never reached the heights that we all hoped for. Some of it has to do simply with the way the business is run. Acts like the fixx, talk talk, and neil finn work hard in relative obscurity, while Britney, Jessica, J.Lo, and others bask in the fame and fortune even when their material sucks compared to the fixx. That is the frustration on these boards sometimes, this band of 5 men is a good band, and the lack of exposure is frustrating when you see less talented, but more "marketed" acts receiving glory.

Hopefully we don't have to all post our ACT and SAT scores , college transcripts, or IQ test scores to see who can debate on here. I think xxif has some good points, and in some areas I think his arguments are a little thin. But I think we can hash it out, because any talk of the Fixx is good to me.

More later, Jim in Wisconsin

Clive3
05-11-2004, 12:02 AM
Wow oh Wow, im gone for a few days and this happens, of for one Welcome to the board xxif, second of all i am probably one of the youngest here on the board (17). i do agree the listeners of today are alot different, The Fixx are in my top 5 bands they have alot of good tunes, can we try and keep the negative comments to ourself, like some sayif u have nothing nice to say dont say it at all, we want to keep peace on this forum........



Clive

Fixxation
05-11-2004, 12:33 AM
Hey Xxif,

This time I will truly apologize. Perhaps you are right that I am too sensitive about The Fixx.

"The Fixx,ultimately,are not incredibly good. Granted,I've yet to hear "Want That Life",but the impression I'm getting is that it is hardly blowing minds,save perhaps those completely biased fans(a specialized minority) utterly lacking any aesthetic objectivity."

I take your comments above as a slam. In my opinion you came across a pompus person. I happen to disagree with you on Elemental. Two Different Views, Ocean Blue, Is That It?, Fatal Shore, Life's What Killing Me, and Silent House are all great songs. You know Me and We Once Held Hands are also good.

To the main stream they may not be popular. But than again, William Hung will probably out gross The Fixx this year. Many great painters died never knowing how great they really were.

I am touchy about The Fixx because they have produced great music and I totally disagree that Reach The Beach is there best album. Calm Animals, Elemental, Ink, Want That Life are all great albums. There problem is that they are not making it to mainsteam radio stations.

Fixxation

Octopulse
05-11-2004, 06:12 AM
xxif,

IMO, you assume too much of what others think, and their capacity to do so, and any points that we may have agreed on were punctuated away by your pompous attitude. I do not need for you, to tell me, about my own psychological processes, save your analyses for professional circles, if you are even in any, here weíre just regular people talking about one of our favorite bands.

About the band ...

The Fixx had a special synergy with Rupert Hine with the first 4 records, youíre not gonna recapture that, but what are the boys supposed to do even if the "glory days" are behind them, stop? Their artists, itís what they do, and they have a craft, and Iím just glad that they survived the age of reptiles. And if they donít regain popular mainstream appeal, and they most likely will not do that, we'll just consider dem our little secret.

As far as this thread being moved into here, IMO your opinion on this matter should have been placed here in the first place, by yourself, within its own thread. It clearly states on the front door this this is the place for controversial opinions, and you must have known that yours was just that. We don't discourage controversy here, quite the contary, and Im sure the band would want us to bang ideas here.



oh and dis thingy ..


Oh,and being "humble,nice and dare I say it...humane" is not synonomous with valid debate. Get over yourself,you self-righteous cretin.
I believe you are mistaken. I had already stated by that point that I was not going to debate you, I had disengaged earlier .. the reason being I thought you were insane .. you do know the rules of a debate dont you xxif? That was not a point, it was my opinion, of you, given, by me, by observing, your conduct, on this board.

k?



Try talking to .. not at. Itís a simple procedure .. any genius can figure it out.

Clive3
05-11-2004, 02:40 PM
hmmmmmm

xxif
05-11-2004, 04:45 PM
Jim,

Now THIS is more like it! In all genuine sincerity,thank you Jim,for your undeniably open-minded and intelligent post. And furthermore,thank you for exercising restraint from any hostile comments;your's showed great poise and maturity,and I confess that I'm somewhat humbled by your superior grace compared to my harshness. I admit that I get a little too emotional(and perhaps cocky to a degree;I did admit to having an active ego afterall) over musical/cultural issues like this one ,because I'm passionate and conscientious about our world/society,and I worry about us/society and the seeming ramifications of what the possible future holds for humankind,in general.

Moreover,I don't engage and consume music/culture for merely entertainment purposes(though this certainly is the case,to a great extent;how could it not,right?);I take it very seriously as well,for artistic and social value,which plays a significant part in the shifting of influences on the mainstream and the marginalized sub-cultures;and it puts the past in perspective too,for summation purposes when we judge the overall significance and value of our past cultural achievers(Hence,The Beatles are,generally[and I,and countless others,think categorically),considered the single greatest,most influential,and important rock-band of all time;but that still doesn't mean it can't be debated;it has been,it is today,and it will be in the future;truth,in the end,is RELATIVE,but consenses on general cultural/philosophical agreements are possible,and that's where concepts like CANON come into play).

I agree with your singling out "Outside" as one of the best tracks on "Reach...".I think of "Opinions"(no pun intended) less so ,but it's still decent. The pinnacle of(at least) The Fixx's popularity/commercail success was undoubtedly,"Reach The Beach". If memory serves,I believe the album peaked at #8 on the album chart in the U.S.A.(where they enjoyed their greatest success,albeit,briefly,during '83-'84)and it sold in excess of a million units. "One Thing Leads To Another" was,by far,the bands biggest hit. It was their only top 10 single,peaking at #4 in the summer of '83. "Saved By Zero" only peaked at #20. "One Thing..." is a definite standard(it still gets airplay to this day),not "Saved By Zero",nor any other Fixx song,for that matter.This is an accurate estimation,beyond my own perspective. The other Fixx singles peaked at the following positions(in America):"Sign Of Fire"#32, "Our We Ourselves"#15, "Sunshine In The Shade"#69, "Secret Separation"#19, "Driven Out"#56(I'm pretty sure), "How Much Is Enough"#35(their last charting single:1991);I think "Deeper And Deeper" charted as well,but I can't remember where it peaked in the top 100. I do remember that it failed to crack the top 40,however. Also,one or two of the singles from "Shuttered Room"(likely,"I Found You")may have also made the top 100(I don't know) ,but not the top 40(this I'm sure of);"One Thing..."was their first. Incidently,regarding "Shuttered Room",one of my favourite tracks on it is "The Fool";a very cool and atmospheric tune. But,unfortunately(no mean-spiritedness intended),The Fixx's '80's catalogue(particularly) has not aged very well;their predominate sound is,retrospectively,a product of that decade;it can't be denied,regardless if the material upholds it's characteristic catchiness .That's why,for me,The Fixx are a fondly remembered,nostalgic part of my own personal past/youth;and that is the long and short of it. I'll say this though,given the choice between the contemporary garbage usurping the main airwaves,I'll take a Fixx album(old or new) in a heartbeat! Most of the new stuff I listen to is,predominately,from the indie-scene now,by acts under smaller labels(The Shins,Broadcast,Pram,Wilco,Low,Yo La Tengo,Sam Phillips,The Apples in Stereo,etc,etc),who never get commercial airplay;their relegated to college radio-stations,and smaller,independant ones operating beneath the tunnel-visioned radar of the monster stations...sigh.

Your opinion on Kurt Cobain's tragic suicide should not impinge on his band's undeniable influence and importance,regardless if you like Nirvana or not(or agree with suicide or not,which I assume you don't;me neither,but that doesn't change the fact they were a great[not everybody agrees,I know]and important[whether you like it or not]rock band). That band was the vanguard of rock'n'roll's(to date)last great revolutionary period of creativity and significance(trust me,I've done my "homework").

U2's "Joshua Tree"(though,undoubtedly,their most successful)is hardly their only masterpiece. Their 1991 album "Auctung Baby" is,generally,considered one of the best albums of the '90's,and Rolling Stone recently placed it in their top 100 of all time(in the 500 greatest albums issue;there wasn't a single Fixx album to be found,I'm afraid) I thought U2's last album "All That You Can't Leave Behind" immensely disappointing,and grossly over-rated(despite Rolling Stone's accolades bestowed upon the album; I disagree with Rolling Stone frequently too).


Your comments on R.E.M. are a little off the mark,or at least,not clarified enough. If you're referring to R.E.M.'s earlier years,before they signed on to Warner Bros.,they "did" have a over-zealous,cult following who resented the band severely when they left I.R.S. Records(in 1988) to expand their audience.In my first post here at this thread,I mentioned this type of listenership(cultural snobs,who prefer that their precious bands remain obscured,so they can relish in their own marginally-collected self-importance).R.E.M.'s wonderful "Everybody Hurts"(released in early 1993),for instance,transcended all cultural off-shoots,with it's universal message of empathy for all.By this time R.E.M.'s popularity was vast,and it seemed everybody was buying and listening to their music;it's waned considerably since,sadly.They're still good,though not as great,nor relevent as they once were.

God! Are you EVER right about Sting's last three albums! They were absolutely atrocious! Talk about "a mere shadow of one's former self"! He was one of my biggest musical heroes. What a bitter pill to swallow. I'm not sure I can totally agree with your assessment on the "vitality" of The Fixx. Granted,they are still vital to their hardcore fans(and you people should be commended for sticking beside them for as long as many of you have).Their sound,actually,has ALWAYS been easily accessible and digestible,from the get-go,hence,commercial(though not in a pathetically-Huey Lewis sense). And their so-called influence in miniscule,at best.They were part of the new-wave movement in the early 80's(that proved hugely successful for several of their contemporaries,besides them),and didn't exact much impact afterwards. Seriously,this is the truth,let's be honest.

It remains one of life's cruel mysteries why Neil Finn is not canonized as one of greatest song-writers of all-time...sigh.

Thanks for your wonderfully engaging post,Jim

take care.

xxif
05-11-2004, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by pipsqueak
Shouldn't you be doing home-work or something mister !


:eek:

:p

ha Hah hAh hah !


Thanks for the badly needed "comic relief", pipsqueak;perhaps this thread "was" getting a bit too abrasive.

Clive3
05-11-2004, 06:34 PM
i think she was talking to me im still in High School

Steve Pariseau
05-11-2004, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by xxif
RE: Nirvana..."That band was the vanguard of rock'n'roll's(to date)last great revolutionary period of creativity and significance(trust me,I've done my "homework")."


Pearl Jam was at the forefront of the Seattle grunge movement. Pearl Jam's 10 was released prior to Nirvana's Nevermind. It would surprise me if Nirvana sold more records than Pearl Jam (I don't know how to find out). Furthermore, I agree with Jim that Nirvana is overatted because of Cobain's death. I believe that Pearl Jam are the true vanguard of the last great revolutionary period of creativity and significance.

xxif
05-11-2004, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Steve Pariseau
Pearl Jam was at the forefront of the Seattle grunge movement. Pearl Jam's 10 was released prior to Nirvana's Nevermind. It would surprise me if Nirvana sold more records than Pearl Jam (I don't know how to find out). Furthermore, I agree with Jim that Nirvana is overatted because of Cobain's death. I believe that Pearl Jam are the true vanguard of the last great revolutionary period of creativity and significance.


Steve,

Actually,you're right AND wrong. No doubt,Pearl Jam(whom I think were outstanding,up to "Vitalogy";their last great album)were the very definition of "grunge";you're absolutely right there,Steve. But they were not at the forefront of the Seattle scene,Nirvana was,unquestionably;and this fact has been confirmed by their contemporaries as well as the rock-writer's who covered the scene while it was happening. By the way,"Ten" was not released before "Nevermind";the former was released in early 1992,while Nirvana"s "second" album was released in (I believe)September of 1991. It was Nirvana who opened the doors and made it possible for all subsequent Seattle(in particular)bands to be signed to big labels,and hence,explode onto the music scene,and rule it for about 3/4 years,during the first half of the '90's.

Your assumption over who sold more records is correct:"Ten" sold over 9 million albums,while "Nevermind" sold over 7 million,but these figures are a moot point when their respective overall impact/significance is compared,though the irony has proved,on the surface,to be in Pearl Jam's favour,but I feel,for the worst.Look at the current(so-called)bands obviously imitating(poorly)Pearl Jam's singular sound(I shudder to mention them):Nickelback, Default, Creed(eeww,I feel dirty),Three Doors Down,and definitely Stone Temple Pilots'earlier albums(when they were together,that is). Man,rock'n'roll is in such a terrible state! And The White Stripes(good,but not great) are hardly the new messiah's.

It looks like we both agree on rock'n'roll's last great revolutionary period,generally speaking.

cheers.

xxif
05-11-2004, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Clive3
i think she was talking to me im still in High School


Actually,I was implying all of pipsqueaks(one after another)posts.Perhaps,I should have specified that.

So how's school goin',kid?

Steve Pariseau
05-11-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by xxif
By the way,"Ten" was not released before "Nevermind";the former was released in early 1992,while Nirvana"s "second" album was released in (I believe)September of 1991.

Not according to Stereo Review magazine. I recently sold my back copies of 1992 (of course I had to read them again before parting with them). 10 was released on August 27 of 1991 and was reviewed in the January 1992 issue (which is printed and mailed in December. Nevermind was released on September 24, 1991 and was billed by that publication as their "debut" CD. Sure its possible there was an indie release preceeding Nevermind. Nevermind was reviewed in the March 1992 issue (printed and mailed in February 1992). Now I haven't done any further homework on this but that is where I was getting my info. I don't have Pearl Jam or Nirvana in my collection which I need to fix as both are so important to the music world.


Originally posted by xxif
Look at the current(so-called)bands obviously imitating(poorly)Pearl Jam's singular sound(I shudder to mention them):Nickelback, Default, Creed(eeww,I feel dirty),Three Doors Down,and definitely Stone Temple Pilots'earlier albums(when they were together,that is). Man,rock'n'roll is in such a terrible state! And The White Stripes(good,but not great) are hardly the new messiah's.

You don't have room to list all the copy-cats. Its sickening, frankly, how 20 minutes of alternative rock radio can go by and every band sounds like PJ or N. Makes a fresh sound like White Stripes or Coldplay much more appreciable. The Stripes echo a 70's vibe which is good to hear amid much of todays otherwise dominating angst. Leave it to them to revive (or at least remind) of the sound from days gone by.

Cheers
(raising a glass of Glenmorangie)
Steve

xxif
05-11-2004, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by Steve Pariseau
Not according to Stereo Review magazine. I recently sold my back copies of 1992 (of course I had to read them again before parting with them). 10 was released on August 27 of 1991 and was reviewed in the January 1992 issue (which is printed and mailed in December. Nevermind was released on September 24, 1991 and was billed by that publication as their "debut" CD. Sure its possible there was an indie release preceeding Nevermind. Nevermind was reviewed in the March 1992 issue (printed and mailed in February 1992). Now I haven't done any further homework on this but that is where I was getting my info. I don't have Pearl Jam or Nirvana in my collection which I need to fix as both are so important to the music world.

If I'm not mistaken,on the back of "Ten",they show both 1991 and 1992,meaning the album was published(as catalogue)in 1991,but not released domestically until early 1992.But your resource seems valid. Actually,"Nevermind" was originally reviewed in Rolling Stone magazine,in October of 1991(I bought the issue when it was released);they gave it only 3 stars then!.They have since changed their tune,and rating,of course. Yeah,you gotta have some Nirvana and Pearl Jam in your collection;kudos,on intending to"fix" that situation.



You don't have room to list all the copy-cats. Its sickening, frankly, how 20 minutes of alternative rock radio can go by and every band sounds like PJ or N. Makes a fresh sound like White Stripes or Coldplay much more appreciable. The Stripes echo a 70's vibe which is good to hear amid much of todays otherwise dominating angst. Leave it to them to revive (or at least remind) of the sound from days gone by.

Cheers
(raising a glass of Glenmorangie)
Steve

Ain't that the truth;there are an inordinate number of sickly copy-cats!(hear! hear!). And your absolutely right about the White Stripes echoing the 70's sound;it's a decent reviving on their part,though not necessarily mind-blowing either,but enjoyable all the same(and refreshing[your right,again]compared to the predominately desolate,musical landscape). Coldplay are pretty good too.Their recent album was a solid piece of work.

cheers,(again)
(will raising a humble bottle of Moosehead beer suffice? lol)

xxif
05-11-2004, 11:27 PM
Steve,

Technical faux pas alert!

Whoops,I think my reply to your initial paragraph was accidentally absorbed by your text;the second one looks fine,thankfully.

Octopulse
05-12-2004, 07:18 AM
< Octo puts on smoking jacket and heads into the parlor >

ut huh .... good day gentleman .... allow me a word or two ....


"With the summer 1976 release of their top 20 album Destroyer Kiss shed a bit of their menacing image in favor of a record with a more melodic and tamer sound than their previous efforts. The album also signaled a new and blatantly commercial direction for the band, most likely inspired by the cold hard cash produced by the unexpected success of the groupís previous live double album, Kiss Alive! Destroyer included arena-rock anthems such as "Detroit Rock City", "Do You Love Me?", and "Shout It Out Loud" which had the kind of punch that insured that the kiddies would renew subscriptions to the Kiss Army for at least another semester or two. Other stand out tracks such as "King Of The Night Time World", "God Of Thunder", and the delightfully kinky "Sweet Pain" also exemplified a musical unsophistication that is rarely seen in todayís music. Destroyer features former Steely Dan guitar virtuoso Ace Frehley, thundering bass riffs from recent presidential candidate Gene Simmons, the dropping of rocks off cliffs for sound effects, and a shallow and disordered attempt at having any concept at all. Brilliant over-the-top arrangements by Pink Floyd/Alice Cooper producer Robert Alan Ezrin, aka Bob Ezrin capture perfectly the larger than life-size aspects of the band's amazing live performances."

KISS FOREVER


< Steve and xxif raise eyebrows and chins >

[ KISS!?, did that cretin say Kiss? ]

yes KISS, as in Kiss my ..

[ "how dare you!, were having a discussion, this is outrageous!" ]

< Octo walks up to xxif and dumps his Moosehead on his head >

The way I look at it you owe Clive an apology sir xxif, and "So how's school goin',kid?" does not equal an apology.

< Octo walks up to Steve, grabs his Glenmorangie and dumps it on his shoes >




Let me show you what I consider to be one of the more meaningful statements that I've seen around here lately....

"God is someone i can go to when i have no one else to tlak to or if i am fealiong down, i can go to him wiht anythin........"

Even with the misspellings its beauty is within its simplicity and purity, and that is a statement I'll remember long after you folks are done with your parlor talk. Youre in such a rush to prove what you know that you have forgetten that a friend has been insulted, with no provacation at all on his part.

Clive3
05-12-2004, 12:20 PM
LOL, its going good, got only 20 days left



Clive

xxif
05-12-2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Clive3
LOL, its going good, got only 20 days left



Clive



Clive,

I've got my "cyber-figurative arm" pinned to my back with some authority by Octopulse's,who seems to be applying more and more pressure until I give in...

But in all seriousness,I had no idea you were only 17 years old,and understandably not as privy to the vaster connotations of the subject matter(it's social context,et al)that exploded when you originally posted,and I immediately responded,somewhat mercilessly,before considering that possibility.

I could,and should, have been far more diplomatic than I was,regrettably;and for that... I do apologize.

xxif

Octopulse
05-12-2004, 03:37 PM
thank you xxif

Clive3
05-12-2004, 03:48 PM
Heheh, its all good xxif... Lets just try and keep this forum positive...


Clive

xxif
05-12-2004, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Octopulse
< Octo puts on smoking jacket and heads into the parlor >

ut huh .... good day gentleman .... allow me a word or two ....


"With the summer 1976 release of their top 20 album Destroyer Kiss shed a bit of their menacing image in favor of a record with a more melodic sound and a shallow and disordered attempt at having any concept at all. The album also signaled a new and blatantly commercial direction for the band, most likely inspired by the cold hard cash produced by the unexpected success of the groupís previous live double album, Kiss Alive! Destroyer included arena-rock anthems such as "Detroit Rock City", "Do You Love Me?", and "Shout It Out Loud" which had the kind of punch that insured that the kiddies would renew subscriptions to the Kiss Army for at least another semester or two. Other stand out tracks such as "King Of The Night Time World", "God Of Thunder", and the delightfully kinky "Sweet Pain" also exemplified a musical unsophistication that is rarely seen in todayís music. Destroyer features former Steely Dan guitar virtuoso Ace Frehley, thundering bass riffs from recent presidential candidate Gene Simmons, the dropping of rocks off cliffs for sound effects, and the brilliant over-the-top arrangements by Pink Floyd/Alice Cooper producer Robert Alan Ezrin, aka Bob Ezrin .. who captures perfectly the larger than life-size aspects of the band's live performances."


< Steve and xxif raise eyebrows and chins >

[ KISS!?, did that cretin say Kiss? ]

yes KISS, as in Kiss my ..

[ "how dare you!, were having a discussion, this is outrageous!" ]

< Octo walks up to xxif and dumps his Moosehead on his head >

The way I look at it you owe Clive an apology sir xxif, and "So how's school goin',kid?" does not equal an apology.

< Octo walks up to Steve, grabs his Glenmorangie and dumps it on his shoes >

and you .. to me .. are a disappointment




Let me show you what I consider to be a meaningful statement....

"God is someone i can go to when i have no one else to tlak to or if i am fealiong down, i can go to him wiht anythin........"

Even with the misspellings its beauty is within its simplicity and purity, and that is a statement I'll remember long after you folks are done with your parlor talk. Youre in such a rush to prove what you know that you have forgetten that a friend has been insulted, with no provacation at all on his part. Well I dont drink with people that insult my friends, at least until theres some from of an apology extended. I'll stay down below with the dregs, theyre more fun to party with anyway.


Octopulse,

O.k.,let's clear the air here(Morpheous:"You think that's air you're breathing?") and call a truce,shall we?

First of all,I sincerely take back the "cretin" jab;admittedly,that was uncalled for;but you have to understand that,as I evidently "pushed your buttons",you,in turn, pushed mine. I'm not the passive sort(in or out of cyberspace),as I'm sure you all know by now.But I should have exercised more restraint on my feelings,and more respect towards your's. I promise to be more contained,within reason though,because I have no intentions of compromising my convictions to appease the "politically-correct" sect,and cater to opposing opinions simply to keep peace for it's own sake.There's nothing more boring than being around people who ALWAYS agree with one another.

You may(at least,I hope) find this little tid-bit of information interesting:There was a socio-psychological book recently published on "phobia's".Do you know what the number one phobia among North Americans is?: Allodoxaphobia-it's defined as having a great fear of other people's opinions. This is a very telling statistic,and quite accurate,if you ask me,when one considers the current "me-me" obsession among the general population;the signs(pun notwithstanding,just look at advertising?) are everywhere,none more obvious than on the Internet.

I've encountered many people before who,in no uncertain terms,derided many of MY favourite bands,for instance,but I didn't take it as a direct insult/assault(as long as it didn't get deliberately personal),because I don't equate them(i.e.,bands)with my personal constitution(despite realizing,as well,that the culture you absorb through your life does,in fact,represent you as a person to a substantial degree,but shouldn't be taken as intrinsically true,hence,off-limits to all differing counter-parts).

Though Kiss is hardly what I would consider a classic band,I'm not without a degree of having some "unadulterated fun" in life;it's an important aspect of it and should be embraced and exerted by all(young and old),despite the initial impression I gave you,in my particular case. I've only ever owned one Kiss album,and it was none other than "Destroyer".I've heard nearly all of their albums,and "Destroyer"(IMO)is their best;it really is a great party album,and "Kiss Alive" is bar-none,one of the best live albums ever;the unbridled energy it exudes is wonderfully contagious.

Ace Frehley...a former-member of Steely Dan??? You're kidding,right? I love Steely Dan! When did Ace(allegedly) play with them?

Oh,and why come down on Steve? What the hell did he do wrong? As far as I can tell,his sudden intervention on this thread could easily be discerned as an act of "mediation" on his part,to perhaps,cool things down here.I'd say it worked,wouldn't you?

Come on,Octopulse...give us a cyber-hug.Let's make up(seriously).

sir xxif............(actually,I like the sound/look of that)

p.s.-You'll be amused(and not surprised,I suppose)to know it wouldn't be the first time I've had Moosehead dumped over me;come to think of it("jarring his cob-webbed memory")I believe it was myself doing the honors,in a desperate attempt to hold a sudden "acid flashback" at bay!(lol)

peace

Octopulse
05-12-2004, 04:19 PM
xxif,

oh God! .. Ace Frehley in Steely Dan! The Dan would eat that boy alive.

I like to consider myself a fair musician, and I feel if you dont get The Dan then you aint there yet.

I just in from work, Im tired, I need beer and food.

Cant think now .. more later.

ps.... now that the Dan have been mentioned I think Gaucho will help 'wit my after-work unwinding .. Time Out Of Mind .. Knopfler helping out on guitar..yummy stuff

jim
05-12-2004, 11:53 PM
small points of contention:

by your comments, I can tell that you have studied these topics far more than I - and I followed most of your arguments and felt they were spot on.

Yes, I feel that the appearance of Nirvana did usher in a different period of music (not one that I really care for) and Cobain's work was way above average. I often think that the deaths of him, Joplin, and Morrison have elevated to their status to some level that is a bit overdone. All of them, like any artist had some mediocre work at points in their career, or had some redundancy in their sound.

Don't you think that Rap-Hip Hop has become the latest age of popular music?

In talking about u2, I am not belittling their work. I rather like it. And as I said, I think Joshua Tree and several of their earlier songs are rock masterpieces. I was just trying to make the connection that the Fixx writes similarly concerning war, politics, and social relationships and isn't all hung up in sell-out love songs. One of their best songs to me is "one". Most take it to be a love song- we know it is really an ode from Bono to the band. Part of what makes it a great song is that it covers all types of human sentiment concerning close relationships: it could be about a couple, or a band, or a parent and child. It's part of the power of the song. I think the Fixx has achieved a similar feat in "You don't have to prove yourself to me". I think it could possibly have been written about the band. Or it could be about a love relationship, it fits either way, and is more universal because of it. I see the Fixx as a kind of undiscovered U2. Insightful lyrics about life's meaning. No "touching themselves", no "just calling to say I love you", no angst, no hate, just good music with a soul searching positive message.

I guess I think more of the fixx work as I see that there is little good work out there in the last 5 years. And I realize that the top sellers are usually more gimmick than talent. As someone said, William Hung will outgross the fixx this year. And if anyone has heard his version of "hotel california" or "rocketman" it is baffling and nauseating to think that "are you satisfied?" or "you don't have to prove yourself to me" will be heard by fewer people.

The state of rock is in limbo for a few years I'm afraid.

Nice talking to you too. I rather see rock as social commentary and not just something to listen to as background noise. I grew up watching mtv and music has always been kind of an obsession with me. I have always been heavily interested in what artists are saying from their pulpits. I like what comes from the fixx. And the concerts are pretty darn good too.

Octopulse
05-13-2004, 06:11 AM
O.k.,let's clear the air here(Morpheous:"You think that's air you're breathing?") and call a truce,shall we?
o.........k......

I have to say that from the beginning I had the impression that this was an experiment of sorts, like we were an ant colony and you were just someone playing scientist tapping on the glass to watch the bugs react. You referring to that book only reinforced that notion for me. Im still not sure, trolls come, and then go, so I guess only time will tell.

I look at the forum differently than some, maybe most, I never had a real family to speak of, I dont have much contact with my siblings, and I have few friends, so the forum to me is more than just a place to exchange info. I probably expect and assume too much in that respect, but even so .. when someone comes in here I feel almost as if they have walked in my front door.





Oh,and why come down on Steve? What the hell did he do wrong? As far as I can tell,his sudden intervention on this thread could easily be discerned as an act of "mediation" on his part,to perhaps,cool things down here.I'd say it worked,wouldn't you?
It worked, in conjunction with the pressure I was applying to bring us where we are now. That statement was one of my Axis 1 codes talkin'. He already knows Im an ******* so Im sure he's not surprised. Like I said I see this place as a home of sorts. Maybe I need to remind myself that this place is in fact not a replacement home, that these people are not replacements for friends, brothers, and sisters. My faults sometimes tend to leave me expecting too much from others, and I have to remind myself sometimes that other people are not like me, luckily for them.

Believe it or not, I used to moderate on this board as well, but, its not for me. I tend to launch into a-hole mode a bit too quickly, and my twisted side can get the best of me before I realize and put it in check. Theres much more freedom of expression for me in not being a mod anyway. I couldnt have called you a trolling jackass if I was a mod! and yes .. I will now retract that label.

Im a firm believer in controlled conflict, Ive stated that before here. Without some **** getting kicked up people sometimes just face dance around, never letting it out their deeper feelings, its all somewhat under the surface still. But after conflict comes an equalibrium, and equalibrium to me is a glorious thing. Because hopefully people will start reflecting, bringing things closer to the surface ya know, and you get a better idea of people and the lay of the land so to speak. Personally I have found over and over that I am unable to establish any lasting rapport with anyone until weve locked horns at least a couple times. My best friend would not be my best friend right now if we had not mentally beat each other up a few hundred times, and physically a couple times as well, but after all the contention, I find that I appreciate him, and love him, even more.




sir xxif............(actually,I like the sound/look of that)
I imagine you would.



If you like discussions about music, and the music industry, such as you have had here with jim and Steve than I will only dissapoint you. Its not my area of expertise, I usually leave the heavier music discussions to the experts here and I sit out. But if you wanna know a certain chord/lick in a Fixx song, or the best way cure skunk bud then that would be closer to my territory.

On to my coffee.........................

xxif
05-14-2004, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by jim
small points of contention:

by your comments, I can tell that you have studied these topics far more than I - and I followed most of your arguments and felt they were spot on.

Yes, I feel that the appearance of Nirvana did usher in a different period of music (not one that I really care for) and Cobain's work was way above average. I often think that the deaths of him, Joplin, and Morrison have elevated to their status to some level that is a bit overdone. All of them, like any artist had some mediocre work at points in their career, or had some redundancy in their sound.

Don't you think that Rap-Hip Hop has become the latest age of popular music?

In talking about u2, I am not belittling their work. I rather like it. And as I said, I think Joshua Tree and several of their earlier songs are rock masterpieces. I was just trying to make the connection that the Fixx writes similarly concerning war, politics, and social relationships and isn't all hung up in sell-out love songs. One of their best songs to me is "one". Most take it to be a love song- we know it is really an ode from Bono to the band. Part of what makes it a great song is that it covers all types of human sentiment concerning close relationships: it could be about a couple, or a band, or a parent and child. It's part of the power of the song. I think the Fixx has achieved a similar feat in "You don't have to prove yourself to me". I think it could possibly have been written about the band. Or it could be about a love relationship, it fits either way, and is more universal because of it. I see the Fixx as a kind of undiscovered U2. Insightful lyrics about life's meaning. No "touching themselves", no "just calling to say I love you", no angst, no hate, just good music with a soul searching positive message.

I guess I think more of the fixx work as I see that there is little good work out there in the last 5 years. And I realize that the top sellers are usually more gimmick than talent. As someone said, William Hung will outgross the fixx this year. And if anyone has heard his version of "hotel california" or "rocketman" it is baffling and nauseating to think that "are you satisfied?" or "you don't have to prove yourself to me" will be heard by fewer people.

The state of rock is in limbo for a few years I'm afraid.

Nice talking to you too. I rather see rock as social commentary and not just something to listen to as background noise. I grew up watching mtv and music has always been kind of an obsession with me. I have always been heavily interested in what artists are saying from their pulpits. I like what comes from the fixx. And the concerts are pretty darn good too.


I totally agree with your point regarding the "dead rock-star icons" being elevated to "god-like status"(in hip-hop's case,just look at Tupac's ridiculous lionization,in the past couple of years!).Unfortunately,especially by today's commercially-obsessed standards,"death" sells also,and so does the "idealized image" that accompanies it,by necessity. Perhaps the irony is that once these cultural icons are co-opted by the mainstream,an adverse effect follows,and they inevitably lose their impact,because of continuous over-exposure(albeit,with ebbs'n'flows,peaks'n'valley's;for instance,in Jim Morrison's case where his continuing popularity flucuates every 10 years,to neo-trendiness,and,hence,"big dollars").

Yes,rap/hip-hop,R'n'B,and Dance-diva's,predominately,rule the current musical(I use this term in it's loosest sense,of course) spectrum,and you can throw in a dash of neo-grunge crap a la:Nickelback,Three Doors Down;with some lame Goth,and neo-metal obnoxiousness to boot. It all spells:ananthema,for quality and creativity,resulting in a massive homogenization of contemporary,mainstream music,regardless of category,which is only a superficial projection of "difference",anyways.

Again,I do agree that The Fixx write socially-conscious songs in similar vein to U2,and some of them are quite effective:"Red Skies","Are We Ourselves","Built For The Future",for instance,but I also find that a lot of Cy Curnin's lyrics rather trite and tautological,laced with tired cliches,and weak metaphors,especially when I consider "Elemental's" lyric's-...oh,my!

Actally,U2 didn't score a hit album until their fifth release(The Joshua Tree",of course,in 1987),where as The Fixx had a smash with just their second album(in 1983).Unfortunately,The Fixx could not maintain their popularity,where as for U2,they have remained a consistently-selling staple for over 15 years,and I contend,not by accident.

William Hung is the anti-Christ(for quality music,and entertainment) in clowns make-up,for the moment,until some other idiot,inevitably,takes the spotlight from him,...and a way we go again! ...groan

take care

xxif

xxif
05-14-2004, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Octopulse
o.........k......

I have to say that from the beginning I had the impression that this was an experiment of sorts, like we were an ant colony and you were just someone playing scientist tapping on the glass to watch the bugs react. You referring to that book only reinforced that notion for me. Im still not sure, trolls come, and then go, so I guess only time will tell.

I look at the forum differently than some, maybe most, I never had a real family to speak of, I dont have much contact with my siblings, and I have few friends, so the forum to me is more than just a place to exchange info. I probably expect and assume too much in that respect, but even so .. when someone comes in here I feel almost as if they have walked in my front door.





It worked, in conjunction with the pressure I was applying to bring us where we are now. That statement was one of my Axis 1 codes talkin'. He already knows Im an ******* so Im sure he's not surprised. Like I said I see this place as a home of sorts. Maybe I need to remind myself that this place is in fact not a replacement home, that these people are not replacements for friends, brothers, and sisters. My faults sometimes tend to leave me expecting too much from others, and I have to remind myself sometimes that other people are not like me, luckily for them.

Believe it or not, I used to moderate on this board as well, but, its not for me. I tend to launch into a-hole mode a bit too quickly, and my twisted side can get the best of me before I realize and put it in check. Theres much more freedom of expression for me in not being a mod anyway. I couldnt have called you a trolling jackass if I was a mod! and yes .. I will now retract that label.

Im a firm believer in controlled conflict, Ive stated that before here. Without some **** getting kicked up people sometimes just face dance around, never letting it out their deeper feelings, its all somewhat under the surface still. But after conflict comes an equalibrium, and equalibrium to me is a glorious thing. Because hopefully people will start reflecting, bringing things closer to the surface ya know, and you get a better idea of people and the lay of the land so to speak. Personally I have found over and over that I am unable to establish any lasting rapport with anyone until weve locked horns at least a couple times. My best friend would not be my best friend right now if we had not mentally beat each other up a few hundred times, and physically a couple times as well, but after all the contention, I find that I appreciate him, and love him, even more.




I imagine you would.



If you like discussions about music, and the music industry, such as you have had here with jim and Steve than I will only dissapoint you. Its not my area of expertise, I usually leave the heavier music discussions to the experts here and I sit out. But if you wanna know a certain chord/lick in a Fixx song, or the best way cure skunk bud then that would be closer to my territory.

On to my coffee.........................


Well said.I appreciate your openness and honesty.

xxif

Octopulse
05-14-2004, 05:26 PM
thank you sir xxif

Octopulse
05-14-2004, 05:57 PM
from xxif....
Actally,U2 didn't score a hit album until their fifth release(The Joshua Tree",of course,in 1987),where as The Fixx had a smash with just their second album(in 1983).Unfortunately,The Fixx could not maintain their popularity,where as for U2,they have remained a consistently-selling staple for over 15 years,and I contend,not by accident.

What is your definition of a hit album?

Wouldnt the "War" and "The Unforgettable Fire" albums be considered hits?, each had a popular hit tracks, such as New Years Day .. Sunday Bloody Sunday .. Pride .. and minor secondarys .. Two hearts .. Bad .. maybe you are considering sales? .. I have no figures........

I remember summer 85 splicing TUF and the ep Wide Awake In America together on cassette to make a better mix. Bad is a stronger track live on WAIA.

< Ya know that desert island scenario keeps getting more impossible to deal with, how can I leave without U2?, **** Im at 20 now .... with no U2 ........... >

The Fixx and U2 bob about the same height to me.



.
from xxif....
I also find that a lot of Cy Curnin's lyrics rather trite and tautological,laced with tired cliches,and weak metaphors,especially when I consider "Elemental's" lyric's-...oh,my!
Cy does recycle a bit more than some, I remember the RS review of Phantoms wasnt that great, they remarked on the lyrics in "I Will" being a bit contrived with Beatle-esque clauses. I dont know if I agree to that, but .. I do feel that the lyrics for "You Know Me" are not that grand, way below par for Cy, but maybe the cliched lines are some kinda point being made .. I just dont get it.

xxif
05-15-2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Octopulse
What is your definition of a hit album?

Wouldnt the "War" and "The Unforgettable Fire" albums be considered hits?, each had a popular hit tracks, such as New Years Day .. Sunday Bloody Sunday .. Pride .. and minor secondarys .. Two hearts .. Bad .. maybe you are considering sales? .. I have no figures........

I remember summer 85 splicing TUF and the ep Wide Awake In America together on cassette to make a better mix. Bad is a stronger track live on WAIA.

< Ya know that desert island scenario keeps getting more impossible to deal with, how can I leave without U2?, **** Im at 20 now .... with no U2 ........... >

The Fixx and U2 bob about the same height to me.



.
Cy does recycle a bit more than some, I remember the RS review of Phantoms wasnt that great, they remarked on the lyrics in "I Will" being a bit contrived with Beatle-esque clauses. I dont know if I agree to that, but .. I do feel that the lyrics for "You Know Me" are not that grand, way below par for Cy, but maybe the cliched lines are some kinda point being made .. I just dont get it.


Octopulse,

To an extent you're correct about "War" and "The Unforgettable Fire" being "hit" albums,but they weren't "smash hit" albums,and I guess that's the distinction I meant to put across. Both those U2 records peaked at #12 on the Billboard Top 200 chart(in America) in their respective years of release(1983 and 1984),and only "TUF" had a top 40 hit:"Pride(In The Name Of Love),which peaked at #33 in late 1984(U2's first top 40 hit in America).Conversely,in Britain,not surprisingly(where they were worshiped even at that early stage of their careers),both those albums were huge hits.

So,yes,when I say "hit album",I mean sales wise. When I think "classic"(or artistic triumph) album,good sales or bad are irrelevent. Just look at the incredible work of The Velvet Underground. Here's a late 60's/early 70's band who "couldn't get arrested"(their debut album[the one with the Andy Warhol "banana" on it]peaked at #171 on the album chart in 1967;their highest placing) when they were together and recorded 4 of the greatest,most original albums of all-time.They're often called the very first "alternative band"; decades before that ridiculous misnomer was ever coined.

I love both versions(live and studio) of "Bad";it's just such an amazing song.

You know what I think is arguably the best set of lyrics written by Cy?..."One Thing Leads To Another",despite being,coincidently,their biggest commercial hit,the lyrics are just plain brilliant;one striking phrase after another,and sung with a great edge of urgency appropriate to it's impressive psychological insight-..."But the long face that you see,comes from living close to your fears."(just one of many examples pervading through the entire song) There's nothing trite and cliched about those lyrics

xxif

Octopulse
05-15-2004, 04:15 PM
from xxif....
You know what I think is arguably the best set of lyrics written by Cy?..."One Thing Leads To Another",despite being,coincidently,their biggest commercial hit,the lyrics are just plain brilliant;one striking phrase after another,and sung with a great edge of urgency appropriate to it's impressive psychological insight-..."But the long face that you see,comes from living close to your fears."(just one of many examples pervading through the entire song) There's nothing trite and cliched about those lyrics

It's quite a coincidence that you mention that song now, just this morning I was reading the booklet that came with Reach The Beach and thinking of how brilliant the lyrics to OTLTA were .. you pretty much summed up my feelings from then in your post.

Clive3
05-16-2004, 10:32 PM
Yay. it is solved

preciousstone75
07-28-2004, 06:36 PM
xxif:

I am not even going to analyze anything, I just read this entire thing and my head hurts (and I use my head quite a bit for a lot of things, but taking hits ain't one of 'em). . .

Whatever happened to people liking things just because they like them? This sounds really stupid to debate stuff like that. And I happen to be one of the best debaters in the state of Illinois, but this?

Let it go. There a lots of reasons why a lot of people ain't doin' what we think they should be doing. And I take being referred to as a cult seriously- I'm not a cult follower. I have my own vasts tastes in music, so please do not classify me with others. A thread like this is a waste of time, and a waste of energy that could be geared toward lifting each other up instead of trying to break down another's intelligence. Would you take that testosterone level down a notch? It's starting to stink in here. . . and if you keep on squeezing those balls of yours with those pliers, there's gonna be ball juice everywhere (think Friday After Next)- LMAO!

Get (or don't) a grip! Damn! That was one of the most disgusting things I ever witnessed, and it's jacked up to see something like this on the boards. I'm not saying you don't have a right to an opinion, because we all do, but when you classify others to suit your rant, it renders you base and trifling. Music is always a great distraction, but you are trying to make it into a science. Man, don't you know you can't bottle a person's tastes and distastes? The industry hasn't figured that one yet, and they won't ever get it right. That's why the industry doesn't care about the consumer- it's all down to dollars and cents for them now. I remember when people could actually sing AND play- just for being talented, I give a lot of musicians props. But when an image or sound becomes manufactured, then all hell breaks lose. Why sound like someone else when you don't have to? It's all about reciprocation, and we for one shouldn't fall for it.

I don't claim to be a music afficionado, but if something works for me, it works for me, even if it means listening to things others would say "WTF?!?" to. Don't get it twisted. When you started off, there were valid points you made, but then you mutated to super ego, and lost a lot of folks. It don't matter how much you do or don't know- and as I learned in school, "it ain't cool to try to flaunt yourself". You may be smart and all, but a lot of us here are too. Using big *** words and stuff and referrring to old works by ancient philosophers. I read Aristotle, Plato and all them cats when I was in school, and what I got from them was this "what the HELL are you on?"

I'm not gonna blaze you. That ain't my style. I believe in all folks having their say. But watch what you say and how you say it. Some folks don't take kindly to that kinda ****. I apologize to the board for cursing, and I hardly do that, but enough is enough. This may be considered squashed to some, but I am highly offended by the things you said.

Put down that gat. . . if you ain't gonna shoot, then let it go. . .

Next time, just use the phrase IMHO or something and maybe folks won't be pissed at you. A lot of things get said in the heat of anger and such, and self control is definitely at a shortage in some of your posts. Whatever you say about the band is the way you feel. But when you start dragging folks and classifying them, then you walk that line. I cannot stand that. If I were going to test your chest, I'd specifically name you and not use blanket statements like "you people" and **** like that. You are really asking for it. You may get a rise out of saying those kinda things and normally I don't react when someone gets diarrhea of the mouth, but I have to go there now because you made me unleash my inner dragon. . . and trust me, I'm REALLY HOLDING MY TONGUE HERE. . . and it's starting to bleed. . .

xxif
07-30-2004, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by preciousstone75
xxif:

I am not even going to analyze anything, I just read this entire thing and my head hurts (and I use my head quite a bit for a lot of things, but taking hits ain't one of 'em). . .

Whatever happened to people liking things just because they like them? This sounds really stupid to debate stuff like that. And I happen to be one of the best debaters in the state of Illinois, but this?

Let it go. There a lots of reasons why a lot of people ain't doin' what we think they should be doing. And I take being referred to as a cult seriously- I'm not a cult follower. I have my own vasts tastes in music, so please do not classify me with others. A thread like this is a waste of time, and a waste of energy that could be geared toward lifting each other up instead of trying to break down another's intelligence. Would you take that testosterone level down a notch? It's starting to stink in here. . . and if you keep on squeezing those balls of yours with those pliers, there's gonna be ball juice everywhere (think Friday After Next)- LMAO!

Get (or don't) a grip! Damn! That was one of the most disgusting things I ever witnessed, and it's jacked up to see something like this on the boards. I'm not saying you don't have a right to an opinion, because we all do, but when you classify others to suit your rant, it renders you base and trifling. Music is always a great distraction, but you are trying to make it into a science. Man, don't you know you can't bottle a person's tastes and distastes? The industry hasn't figured that one yet, and they won't ever get it right. That's why the industry doesn't care about the consumer- it's all down to dollars and cents for them now. I remember when people could actually sing AND play- just for being talented, I give a lot of musicians props. But when an image or sound becomes manufactured, then all hell breaks lose. Why sound like someone else when you don't have to? It's all about reciprocation, and we for one shouldn't fall for it.

I don't claim to be a music afficionado, but if something works for me, it works for me, even if it means listening to things others would say "WTF?!?" to. Don't get it twisted. When you started off, there were valid points you made, but then you mutated to super ego, and lost a lot of folks. It don't matter how much you do or don't know- and as I learned in school, "it ain't cool to try to flaunt yourself". You may be smart and all, but a lot of us here are too. Using big *** words and stuff and referrring to old works by ancient philosophers. I read Aristotle, Plato and all them cats when I was in school, and what I got from them was this "what the HELL are you on?"

I'm not gonna blaze you. That ain't my style. I believe in all folks having their say. But watch what you say and how you say it. Some folks don't take kindly to that kinda ****. I apologize to the board for cursing, and I hardly do that, but enough is enough. This may be considered squashed to some, but I am highly offended by the things you said.

Put down that gat. . . if you ain't gonna shoot, then let it go. . .

Next time, just use the phrase IMHO or something and maybe folks won't be pissed at you. A lot of things get said in the heat of anger and such, and self control is definitely at a shortage in some of your posts. Whatever you say about the band is the way you feel. But when you start dragging folks and classifying them, then you walk that line. I cannot stand that. If I were going to test your chest, I'd specifically name you and not use blanket statements like "you people" and **** like that. You are really asking for it. You may get a rise out of saying those kinda things and normally I don't react when someone gets diarrhea of the mouth, but I have to go there now because you made me unleash my inner dragon. . . and trust me, I'm REALLY HOLDING MY TONGUE HERE. . . and it's starting to bleed. . .


preciousstone75,

My god,woman....you sound like you're about to have a breakdown of sorts.

Inhale....and....exhale. Have you your wits about you now?

This thread has wrapped up on a nice and diplomatic note,or did you not read it to its conclusion? Furthermore,it has been TWO AND A HALF MONTHS since Clive made the final post with a sense of satisfaction that all "beefs" were ultimately reconciled(and I felt he was right).

I already apologized for my unbridled passion and umbrage I initially had for the original poster's(Clive) question(as well as my butting heads with Octopulse,et al) as to "why The Fixx were not appreciated"(not knowing he was only 17). And when I(with the benefit of hindsight) unwisely used the phrase:"you people" and alluded to psychological connections(I should have known better to assume authority without some kind of defensive retort returned),I was simply GENERALIZING;meaning that it didn't necessarily apply to each and everyone of the visitors at this web-site.

It has been "let go";can't you see that? And,yes,I whole-heartedly agree that things can and should be liked just for the sake of liking them,without any critical analysis or deep thought. Hell! I like Olivia Newton-John,for Christ's sake! knowing full well that her music had/has no artistic merit. I simply like it because it's undeniably catchy;and that was all it meant to achieve. I have the mental/cultivated ability to make that distinction. And make no mistake about it, preciousstone75,there IS such a distinction that can and has and will again,be made where music,or books,or movies,or art,etc, is concerned,whether you understand/accept it or not. Therefore,I stand firmly on my opinion that The Fixx are understandably under-appreciated,but that doesn't mean people can't enjoy The Fixx's music on their own terms.

It also appears that you completely misconstrued my use of the phrase:"cult following". I did not mean to refer to it in the sense that one refers to a "religious cult". When a rock-band,for instance,does not make much of a dent on the national charts,their choice fans are(not in the derogatory sense)referred to as a "cult following". The Fixx haven't been "chart busters" for nearly 20 years,hence,their contemporary fans can accurately be referred to as a "cult following".

What did you mean by "music is always a great distraction"?-distraction from what? and why so?

I'm afraid you are incredibly naive to think that "the industry" hasn't figured out the basic tastes of the "general population". Have you any idea how much money is spent on "market research",just to figure out what people are generally attracted to,in terms of taste? How could the industry not care about the consumer? Money and "consumer" CAN NEVER be mutually exclusive. There are,however,always exceptions to the rule,and therefore many people can define their own tastes(for the most part,because nobody is completely immune to pop-culture's immense influence).

Just because YOU,apparently,did not understand the writings of the great "Greek Three":Socrates,Plato,and Aristotle,how can you justify such an assertion,in reference to their works?:"what the HELL are you on?". Do you not realize that all that is known and understood about the identity of the Western hemisphere derives from the initial writings/teachings of these three extraordinary men(for better or for worse),which has ultimately brought us to present times,in all its innumerable off-shoots of thought?

"put down that gat...if you ain't gonna shoot...then let it go..."-I'm sorry,but,what does that even mean? Did I not "shoot" when I stated my views,initially?

Finally,I have absolutely no intention of using:IMHO,because my opinions are not necessarily humble. I'm well-informed about my music knowledge and range,and have no reservations about asserting and unequivocally defending them tenably(fully realizing that I'm not infallible). If that potentially "pisses you off" than too bad.I'm not responsible for your possible negative reactions,as long as I exercise a degree of restraint(which admittedly,I failed to do,initially) from undue harshness,and total lack of sensitivity.

xxif

Clive3
07-31-2004, 12:01 AM
Would it mkae ppl happy if the mods deleted this Thread????? im nto positive but im sure Jeff or one of the mods could take care of this regretful Thread that i posted...


Clive

preciousstone75
07-31-2004, 01:07 AM
xxif:

See, there you go trying to blow your intelligence all over the place. And furthermore, I did not misconstrue anything as you have implied. I read this the other day, and I am not going to lie. You do have to be careful what you say, and I for one do not care much for what you said. I see cults as being something that is not good. Face it, it was a word created specifically for that reason.

And don't you worry about me- I'm fine. You are the one who obviously needs to take a pill. I am reacting to what I read. You were the one who posted it. And while some folks let it go, I don't see how they could have. You diminished everything a person is when you laid down your tracks.

And yes, I sure did ask "what the Hell were they on". I totally understand all that bullcrap. Socrates and Plato as you have stated said some good things, but hell, it was a million lifetimes ago. Can't you do better than that? The Western civilzation is warped and we both know it. Just because I don't try to smear my brain all over everyone doesn't mean I don't know what you are saying, sir. I won't go into my educational history because I don't need to. You aren't dealing with anyone who just accepts what they are fed. And as far as consumer research-? For what? They market whatever they want to market. It's just all put on paper to justify what is being spent. Demographics don't represent anything but popular opinion (and they DON'T ask everyone- remember that), and whatever is contrary to it is ignored. I don't care. I never said that you could not say anything you wanted about the band. I was talking about the way you classify those who don't agree with you.

Have a nice day.

xxif
07-31-2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by preciousstone75
xxif:

See, there you go trying to blow your intelligence all over the place. And furthermore, I did not misconstrue anything as you have implied. I read this the other day, and I am not going to lie. You do have to be careful what you say, and I for one do not care much for what you said. I see cults as being something that is not good. Face it, it was a word created specifically for that reason.

And don't you worry about me- I'm fine. You are the one who obviously needs to take a pill. I am reacting to what I read. You were the one who posted it. And while some folks let it go, I don't see how they could have. You diminished everything a person is when you laid down your tracks.

And yes, I sure did ask "what the Hell were they on". I totally understand all that bullcrap. Socrates and Plato as you have stated said some good things, but hell, it was a million lifetimes ago. Can't you do better than that? The Western civilzation is warped and we both know it. Just because I don't try to smear my brain all over everyone doesn't mean I don't know what you are saying, sir. I won't go into my educational history because I don't need to. You aren't dealing with anyone who just accepts what they are fed. And as far as consumer research-? For what? They market whatever they want to market. It's just all put on paper to justify what is being spent. Demographics don't represent anything but popular opinion (and they DON'T ask everyone- remember that), and whatever is contrary to it is ignored. I don't care. I never said that you could not say anything you wanted about the band. I was talking about the way you classify those who don't agree with you.

Have a nice day.


There's no point to this. I'm attempting to communicate with someone who is clearly an insecure and defensive person under the self-delusion that she is intelligent,well-informed,and able to comprehend,objectively,ANY line of discussion,despite not having certain frames-of-reference,in order to understand.(The word "cult" has only one rigid definition/connotation??{that necessarily MUST suit YOUR narrow understanding,apparently}--Do you even know what "market research" is?--And,finally,"Plato and Socrates was bullcrap?"-" That was a million lifetimes ago!"(???),and then you asked:"Can't you do better than that?" That question doesn't make any sense.We weren't discussing/comparing any other philosophers(for your information,however,Nietzsche was heavily influenced by the Ancient Greek philosophers.Didn't you know that? I thought you read Nietzsche in school?) How can you possibly think you could be taken seriously by spewing such adolescent nonsense? Have you any discernible clue what you're saying? I thought you were "the best debater in Illinois"?-You seem intimidated/afraid of genuine and reasonable intelligence. In all sincerity,preciousstone75,I AM worried about you. Do you define yourself as a person,wholly based on what you listen to,read,watch,etc,and than have the gall to snap at someone who disagrees with you and taking it as a personal attack? You truly have no idea how unbelievably hypocritical you are,do you?

We clearly can't communicate on a level playing field of discussion among educated(and adequately adjusted) adults,regretfully.

Good day to you as well.











(Clive,I'm afraid you may be right to suggest that this unfortunate thread should be deleted all together,by the moderator. They certainly have my blessing.)

Clive3
07-31-2004, 07:11 PM
Precious.. xxif has apologized, this conflict ended along time ago, can we try and keep the peace here??? its in the past and xxif has apoligized...


Clive

Jeanne Thelen
07-31-2004, 08:59 PM
My feelings on this is that the Fixx was ahead of its time ...lyrically they are one if the best... but it takes an open heart ,mind and soul to aprreciate all that the Fixx has to offer...because they have never used sex or fashion(sorry Brittany) to sell themselves....they have what is rare ,,,pure,raw talent and energy.. they actually have someting to say ... my favorite example of this is 'driven out' .. that song was brilliant but at the end of the "me" generation of the 80's and heading into the depressing anticts of the grunge generation of the early 90's..it didn't stand a chance for its message to be heard or appriciated.. The Fixx requires a certain amount of maturity to understand the underlying message and they have a lot to say to anyone who has the heart and time to listen... so maybe that is it .. but I think it is beyond wonderful that after 20 year theFixx is still out there and going strong.. will we be able to say that about many of the artist of today...doubtful!!!!
P.S. ..no offense taken, Fixxture... you either stand up for what you believe in or fall with the rest of them!! HMMM ..sounds like a song! :)

pipsqueak
07-31-2004, 09:26 PM
THE FIXX ..

:o { they are my very favorite Band..

:rolleyes:

:o { in case you forgot .. I just thought I'ld mention that...

:)

Jeanne Thelen
07-31-2004, 09:49 PM
mine too, pipsqueak.. I am only sorry that i have lost so much time since Calm Animals .. but it has been definately a blast catching up and to remember " there is nothng lost .. that cannot be found.. if sought ..." :) ...look foward to catching up with other Fixxtures.. thanks for the reply ... Jeanne

pipsqueak
07-31-2004, 10:01 PM
Hey .. don't forget to get Missing Links...

It is so fun to hear !

I was thinking about how lucky I'm they were born in England.. cause I don't speak Russian.. or Swahili for that matter..

They should work on translating their stuff.. so folks everywhere can get the meaning..

I'm not a demanding fan .. am I ?

.. ...heh`het

Jeanne Thelen
08-01-2004, 10:09 AM
Not at all Pipsqueak...:)
I"ll be sure to try and find Missing Links as you sugguested ..it has been quite the adventure relocating all the Fixx cd's ,, but hey.. I love a challenge!!:) Walkabout seems to be the hardest to find... but I have a friend combing ebay for me... I just got Phantoms on Friday .. one of my favorites as this was the time I last saw the band live ... and I am LOVING 'Want That Life' ..It has barely left my cd player for 3 weeks!!!(listening to it as we speak :)..) .. have a great day and thanks for the reply.. talk to you soon .. Jeanne

xxif
08-01-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Clive3
Precious.. xxif has apologized, this conflict ended along time ago, can we try and keep the peace here??? its in the past and xxif has apoligized...


Clive


Thank you,Clive.


xxif

preciousstone75
08-01-2004, 07:21 PM
Hey, I'm just reacting to what was said, Clive. And if this thread had been deleted, it should have been done a long LONG time ago. I usually visit this place everyday, and I must have been working when it was originally posted. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one offended. And by the way, xxif, you need to just relax a bit yourself. I discussed Nietzsche with you because I found him interesting. One time or another I found Socrates and Plato as well as Homer and all those other guys interesting. Like you, I too have a vast education in what a lot of folks would consider boring subjects. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I have cards missing in my deck- it just means that you have to go the distance to convince me to see your perspective. When I first discussed things with you, yes, you seemed to be on the level. So when I read this thread, it really offended me because you just went off and instead of clarifying yourself as you often do, it wasn't so.

Rationality depends on whose call it is, sir. Just because I blew you back and had my say doesn't mean anything. The offense was taken, and if they are satisfied with your apology, then go ahead. I read every post before I added my comment. If that makes me an "insecure person", then so be it. I just don't accept what others do, and that's how it is. I stand for what I say as well. I'm not namecalling or labeling; I just said it plain the way it appeared to me. As for your not saying anything else to me, fine; I ain't mad at ya. For your information, sir, I am a NHS member as well as a business major, so be careful what you ask me. I am a well-read individual and I sure don't have to defend myself with you, because when I state my opinion I always run into someone who really doesn't want to hear it, or better yet be contested. I told you I was offended by what you said about us, not the Fixx. Your apology was given, but I really am not concerned about that. Also, sir, if you are going to really give me a challenge or make me think about something, let me know.

xxif
08-01-2004, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by preciousstone75
Hey, I'm just reacting to what was said, Clive. And if this thread had been deleted, it should have been done a long LONG time ago. I usually visit this place everyday, and I must have been working when it was originally posted. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one offended. And by the way, xxif, you need to just relax a bit yourself. I discussed Nietzsche with you because I found him interesting. One time or another I found Socrates and Plato as well as Homer and all those other guys interesting. Like you, I too have a vast education in what a lot of folks would consider boring subjects. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I have cards missing in my deck- it just means that you have to go the distance to convince me to see your perspective. When I first discussed things with you, yes, you seemed to be on the level. So when I read this thread, it really offended me because you just went off and instead of clarifying yourself as you often do, it wasn't so.

Rationality depends on whose call it is, sir. Just because I blew you back and had my say doesn't mean anything. The offense was taken, and if they are satisfied with your apology, then go ahead. I read every post before I added my comment. If that makes me an "insecure person", then so be it. I just don't accept what others do, and that's how it is. I stand for what I say as well. I'm not namecalling or labeling; I just said it plain the way it appeared to me. As for your not saying anything else to me, fine; I ain't mad at ya. For your information, sir, I am a NHS member as well as a business major, so be careful what you ask me. I am a well-read individual and I sure don't have to defend myself with you, because when I state my opinion I always run into someone who really doesn't want to hear it, or better yet be contested. I told you I was offended by what you said about us, not the Fixx. Your apology was given, but I really am not concerned about that. Also, sir, if you are going to really give me a challenge or make me think about something, let me know.


Duly noted,...let's move on......

xxif
08-01-2004, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by preciousstone75
Now, now, don't go there, sir. You may not like my answer. Of course I know who influenced Nietzsche. I've been studying them all my life. My question to you was can't you think of something new to quote or think about? Get some fresh ideas instead of recycling words and ideas others have used? I know what I am saying. Maybe plain English would be a better medium for you. To your standards I may seem not on your level, but of course super egos and elitists think that way. However, sir, I am much more complex than I appear. I am not defined by man's words or ism's. I never have been. My attack was not personal; it was an observation of what I read. And, believe me, I read it several times to be sure that I was not misconstruing anything. Rational adults? Sir, that isn't even an issue. You're calling me a child because I question you. But you know, at least children have the guts to refute or question everything and everyone. They have the ability to grow and learn. They never stop. For those of us who get labeled as such, I for one say thank you, because it means I don't accept what you say just because you say it. I am never intimidated by anyone; the day I become so I am no longer human. Face it- we are two people who love a challenge. I am one who faces them whole-heartedly, which is why I even commented in the first place.

I define myself as being unlike any other because of simply who I am, sir. The way I think, react, and feel is unlike anyone else. A person who defines his/herself by only the things they read or see is not wholly human (imho). PS- learn how to spell. One of my pet peeves is swapping ideas with people who don't use spell check. I am not mad at you or even worried. But you see, I am not one who takes some things lying down. If this is squashed, I accept Clive's decree. Good fight, sir.



I gotta hand it to you,lady,...you are certifiable,and,evidently,implacable to boot. But whatever,right? Keep fightin' the good fight,yada,yada,yada...ad nauseum unto pointlessness,huh?

That cheap shot about my alleged bad spelling,by the way,was pedantic,anal-retentive,and totally unwarranted;I mean,give me a goddamn break with that petty bull****,o.k.?

And there is absolutely NO indication whatsoever in your juvenile writing,and ignorant sense of expression, that would even REMOTELY suggest that you've been reading(and understanding) the likes of a Nietzsche "all your life". It just doesn't gell,...seriously.

I love a good challenge,indeed;I live for juicy debates,and I've no qualms,at all,with a little heated friction(this keeping the "pollyanna peace" is for the birds,and the emotionally fragile). I admit it, I'm fiercely competitive,but I'm also a firm supporter of coherent and well-structured syntax that can start,display,and effectively finish a lucid stream-of-thought,and still maintain relative civilty in the process.

You got spunk,miss,but you remind me of a cornered animal just taking instinctually-defensive swipes with your claws,without any semblance of rhyme or reason that would suggest a clear and strong counter-argument.

"Good fight,sir"? No it wasn't. It was an exercise in futility(on both our parts,but for considerably different reasons).

Good night,miss.

preciousstone75
08-01-2004, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by xxif
I gotta hand it to you,lady,...you are certifiable,and,evidently,implacable to boot. But whatever,right? Keep fightin' the good fight,yada,yada,yada...ad nauseum unto pointlessness,huh?

That cheap shot about my alleged bad spelling,by the way,was pedantic,anal-retentive,and totally unwarranted;I mean,give me a goddamn break with that petty bull****,o.k.?

And there is absolutely NO indication whatsoever in your juvenile writing,and ignorant sense of expression, that would even REMOTELY suggest that you've been reading(and understanding) the likes of a Nietzsche "all your life". It just doesn't gell,...seriously.

I love a good challenge,indeed;I live for juicy debates,and I've no qualms,at all,with a little heated friction(this keeping the "pollyanna peace" is for the birds,and the emotionally fragile). I admit it, I'm fiercely competitive,but I'm also a firm supporter of coherent and well-structured syntax that can start,display,and effectively finish a lucid stream-of-thought,and still maintain relative civilty in the process.

You got spunk,miss,but you remind me of a cornered animal just taking instinctually-defensive swipes with your claws,without any semblance of rhyme or reason that would suggest a clear and strong counter-argument.

"Good fight,sir"? No it wasn't. It was an exercise in futility(on both our parts,but for considerably different reasons).

Good night,miss.

Now, see, I was dropping it. I'm not a cornered animal, and never will be.

The whole spell check thing was a joke- sense of humor? I don't write anything pertaining to Nietzsche, nor do I claim to even try to emulate him. I said that I enjoyed him, okay? I studied Nietzsche in college- I studied Greek philosophy for over ten years starting in grade school. Also, I personally don't give a hairy rat's ***. I was not attacking you, but you just went there. I backed off and let you have it. However, there is no placating you as well. I won't waste my time on you any further. You can say what you want about my writing. Every critic has his opinion.

It makes no difference if you get me or not. However, sir, you must have way too much time on your hands. I am neither emotionally fragile nor certifiable. I have the paperwork to prove it (if you can take a joke). See, we think differently. Your train of thought pertains to mostly logic while I think outside the box. I ask all the questions others won't or are afraid to. When I told you good fight, I was referring to how you defended yourself, not cutting you down. If my compliments sound like jabs, pardon me. I am totally cracking up at this. This is hilarious. By the end of today I am going to look at this and roll on the floor laughing.

We can remain civil- it ain't that hard. I am who I am- you are who you are. You stick, I move and we could dance around this boxing ring forever. When you put in that last post, I was just replying to your other rebuttal. You said let's move on, I'm all for it. We have both had our say, whether one thinks the other makes sense or not. I think you are a determined individual. There's nothing wrong with that. I am not unstructured as you may believe. I write the words as they come and edit afterwards.


Furthermore, this whole issue has deviated from what I originally had a problem with. So now you think I am unglued and don't make sense. Maybe I don't. Does it really matter anyway, or does it make you entirely frustrated trying to follow me? The whole object is to shake you up a bit. You're shaking your head and wondering "who the heck is this woman and why is she bothering me?" Yeah, I agree. I had to push you to get what I wanted out of you. If that means sliding things around, so be it. You have actually raised yourself in my estimation by not backing out. I'm not what you think, however unmetered or unstructured these passages are.


So, you have a nice evening. No love lost. Still gonna read your posts because I think you are at least using your brain (and put some water on it because it's smoking (just kidding)).

xxif
08-02-2004, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by preciousstone75
Now, see, I was dropping it. I'm not a cornered animal, and never will be.


So, you have a nice evening. No love lost. Still gonna read your posts because I think you are at least using your brain (and put some water on it because it's smoking (just kidding)).


Let's face it,neither of us wants to "drop it",even if we have deviated from the initial concern at hand. This is too much fun now to (cyber-spatially) walk away from, and I suspect that you would agree. We're both very stubborn,pig-headed and full of "ball-busting" pride;to our respective detriment or not,seems as no consequence. And we BOTH appear to have ample time on our hands.

Sure,let's do it. I'll dance with you in this abstract "boxing ring" you mentioned,but I have no intentions of standing still;I'm fascinated with,and galvanized by your naive intellectual claims,and your seemingly contradictory nature,such as, I wonder if you are aware of the delicious irony your stating that you "think outside the box" is when one considers how cliched and tautological(i.e.-redundant) your statements actually are. And just as an amusing aside,I love the fact that we are writing our respective texts within a box inside a box(the framed internet) inside another box(the computer itself) inside another box(home,office,cubicle,etc)...and so on; funny,isn't it?

Firstly,I feel it is necessary to clarify something. I did not get the impression you were going to "drop it",because I hadn't seen your previous post prior to posting mine at the time. Turns out we posted at precisely the same time(1:45 A.M.,I think it was),but your's was a few seconds ahead of mine(damn you!-lol),hence my belief you were persisting;a simple,unavoidable misunderstanding that has allowed our mutually-provoking sparring to continue. Honestly,would we want it any other way? How silly of me! That was obviously a rhetorical question! By the way,what happened to said(your's) post? It appears it was deleted/erased. By you? If so,why?

Regarding the "spell-check" incident, I'm curious:how could ANYONE derive an intended sense of humor from this?-"PS- learn how to spell. One of my pet peeves is swapping ideas with people who don't use spell check". That doesn't make a bit of sense when you consider the context. You made a direct accusation over my "so-called misspellings" out of nowhere,and reinforced the notion you weren't kidding,by claiming it was a genuine pet peeve, peroid. How else would anyone take that?--Contradiction #2,on your part:you said a post or two back that I should watch what I was saying,and yet you pull this puerile stunt; come now, precious...,if the shoe fits,huh?

Do you know what the main preoccupation among philosophers/critical theorists has been during the past 80 years or so?: LANGUAGE. One contemporary thinker(Deconstructionist,Jacques Derrida) has concluded that the world as we know it is essentially "a text". Meaning that all sense of meaning,value and understanding with our collective participation within society is ultimately bound by LANGUAGE. For instance, a "table" is a table because it isn't a chair,or couch,or desk,or horse,or liberal,or movie-star. It IS,because of its necessary "difference" with everything else. But the WORD "table" is not what makes it intrinsically a "table". That was derived arbitrarily(i.e.-by chance). The word "table" could have easily been called "scissors",and we would be none the wiser;it still would have been a flat,wooded,or marbled,or metal surface with four legs to hold it up. Becoming aware of this radical thought process,one may find one's previous understanding and overall perception of the/their world dramatically altered. It did for me. Other disciplines involving the study of language,and how it determines our world are:linguistics(its fundamental structure),semantics(its innumerable contexts),and semiotics(its sign values). One example of "semiotics" would be the study of "fashion culture":when someone is dressed like a "goth",or "punk-rocker",or "Wallstreet CEO",the sign-system they are conveying,non-verbally,displays their general attitudes,politics,life-style,etc,because it falls under an established cultural-code of expression and bias. Hence,famed semiotician Roland Barthes,once said: "nobody dresses innocently."

I have found your posts to be rife with contradictions,presumptions,confused trains-of-thought,and non sequitors(i.e.-statements uttered to be self-evidently true without any evidence to back them up).

Before I get to your preceding post,I would like to shed some badly needed light on a couple of your previous...ahem,... statements. One that jumped out at me was this one:"I am not defined by man's(the gender,or humankind's?) words or isms"(by the way,are you a fan of "Ferris Bueller's Day Off"?). You have a name don't you,besides the one you use at this site?(still a name made up of words though;oh!,and another thing I'm curious about,are you 29 years old this year? Is that what the "75" indicates in your user-name?;the year you were born? And if so it would seem suspiciously self-centered/vain of you to associate yourself as a self-proclaimed "precious stone" born in 1975,in convenient correspondence with The Fixx song,it obviously alludes to. I just find that interesting, if it's the case,that is;if not,I humbly retract it). My point,finally,is that it's impossible to escape being defined by words;EVERYONE is,without exception,if they reside in society,and those who don't: aborigine indians,natives in the rainforest,etc,are not immune either,as I've just illustrated by naming them collectively. And besides,they,themselves, have developed their own language/sign system,regardless.

When you said:"I am never intimidated by anyone;the day I become so I am no longer human". What did you mean by that? Are you saying that people who ARE(occasionally or constantly) intimidated are "no longer human"? Where's the sense in such a claim?

Moreover,when you said:" I read every post before I added my comment. If that makes me an "insecure person",then so be it. I just don't accept what others do,and that's how it is. I stand for what I say as well." Why would you think I thought you "insecure",simply by reading my posts? That's not what I feel makes you insecure;it's in the way you expressed yourself in YOUR posts that gave it away. In fact,I find you to be an "open book",of sorts. You're not very complex at all;a little obtuse,perhaps,but hardly complex. Have you any idea how contradictory you sounded in your last two sentences? You reject all "others" because what they "do" is different,and you can't accept that,for it's own sake? and contrary opinions,it seems,simply because they may,or may not agree with your own? And yet,feel completely justified to assert your own anyways,despite a total lack of democracy,and fairness? Here's another definition for you: you appear to be an ALLODOXAPHOBE-someone who fears other people's opinions;but seems completely blind of this fact,and makes no bones about presenting a psychologically necessary counter-strike devoid of any sense outside of your own confused head,and damn the torpedoes,in the process!

You don't bother me at all,but you certainly intrique me with your unbelievably unbridled senselessness(you're an irresistible profile subject) .You want to "shake me up a bit",eh? You "had to push me to get what you wanted"? I'd love to hear the reasons behind this. My theory is that you haven't a clue who you are and what you say,and on that very principal,you get off on your own discombobulation-you're what is postmodernistically refered to as a de-centered subject,but don't fret,the world is chock full of them,and I don't entirely discount myself in that regard,but I have at least made great pains to alleviate that situation.

Thanks for your kind closing words,however,and,yes,that last humourous remark:"("and put some water on it because it's smoking") was genuinely funny and made perfect sense.

xxif

Steve Pariseau
08-02-2004, 06:13 PM
XXIFF & Precious

Please take your back and forth observations of each other's behaviours to private e'mail.

pipsqueak
08-02-2004, 10:41 PM
THE FIXX ..

:o { I really Like them.. ah whole lot... they are my most very favorite band ever.

:rolleyes:

:o { Yep, they sure are.. ... ...........

:)

xxif
08-03-2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Steve Pariseau
XXIFF & Precious

Please take your back and forth observations of each other's behaviours to private e'mail.


Yeah, I guess this "horse" is officially dead.

Dagnammit!...sniff!...oh,I-I reckon the gun-smoke's a-gettin' in ma eyes sum..................sniff!...

Anyways,moving right along then...

xxif
08-25-2004, 05:28 PM
O.k.,who did it? Who moved this persistent thread back to the top, prior to my present post here?

Come on...somebody fess up.(lol)

Alright then...who wants some?(lol)


sir xxif

Char
08-25-2004, 10:35 PM
I'm certain who ever did, did so for the entertainment value.;)
Look at the view number, that's got to be close to a record.

Clive3
08-26-2004, 02:49 PM
All i know is that i am happy u two arent fighting ne more xxif and prec that is hehe :D...


Clive

preciousstone75
08-30-2004, 12:09 PM
Now, that's funny!!!!!!!!!! :D

been being good, and trying to be quiet! how ya doin' clivester?

Clive3
08-30-2004, 12:18 PM
Im doing good, we have our first football game on friday so gettin kinda excited for that :D


Clive

xxif
11-28-2004, 10:29 PM
I wonder how many copies "Want That Life" actually managed to sell. Dismal numbers,I'm sure.

I know it did SFA chart wise,but than again,so did the new Finn Brothers,Sam Phillips,Broadcast,The Shins,Asia,Alan Parsons,Hall and Oates,Neko Case,Maria McKee and Stereolab.

However,...William Shatner's new album is a huge college hit!!...umm...yyyyeeeaahhhh......groan.

Anyway, I STILL think The Fixx haven't been all that good since,say,"Walkabout";though they have,admittedly,shown flashes of their former quality since:"Happy Landings",for instance.

-commence cyber-flagellation(lol)

Raych the Beach
12-01-2004, 12:39 AM
Bite your tongue. Reach the Beach and Walkabout are both masterpeice quality, but they don't touch Calm Animals. :-)

xxif
12-01-2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Raych the Beach
Bite your tongue. Reach the Beach and Walkabout are both masterpeice quality, but they don't touch Calm Animals. :-)


Bite my tongue? I can't promise you that,but I may have to "bite my lip" here...a-hem...

Look here,"Sgt, Pepper" is a masterpiece,"London Calling" is a masterpiece,"Automatic For The People" is a masterpiece,"OK Computer" is a masterpiece. "Reach The Beach" and "Walkabout" are GOOD albums(at best!),and no one with any musical credibility would think otherwise. "Calm Animals",on the other hand,is a very weak album. It has a couple of decent tunes("Precious Stone","I'm Life",...umm"Driven Out"),and even they aren't "classics" by any stretch.

The fact that you would say that "RTB" and "Walkabout" can't touch "Calm Animals" is just baffling. I also find it interesting that you would think there's a "better" superlative than "masterpiece" to describe your prefered favourite Fixx album. Is there any?

The thing is Raych,is that no matter how much you love The Fixx,and anyone else here for that matter,in terms of their own admiration for Cy and the boys,The Fixx have never nor ever WILL be considered part of the "rock'n'roll canon",like bands such as The Beatles,The Clash,The Police,R.E.M.,Radiohead,Pavement,etc,etc. I can assure you,this is not just my (informed)opinion.

If YOU think these Fixx albums are "masterpieces or better(??)" that's your constitutional right and prerogative,and nobody can take that away from you. But you have to understand that culture through-out history has always established what is aesthetically accepted as the "creme de la creme" of culture. Some people(always a minority,for better or for worse) are privy to this material and knowledge(what is generally referred to as "cultivation");most aren't,but still feel they have just as valid an opinion. I'm here to tell that that just doesn't wash,and I'm more than willing to debate anyone here(...again...) Have you read the initial posts from this controversial thread? If you haven't, fasten your seat-belt!;)

Jeanne Thelen
12-01-2004, 05:55 PM
PLease ..lets not rehash this one again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

xxif
12-01-2004, 06:48 PM
O.k.!! O.k.!! What can I say? I'm incorrigible. But fair enough,...I'll behave.(crossing his arms,chin downward,and sporting a formidible pout)-lol! :D

dejapete
12-01-2004, 08:39 PM
Hmmm. This IS a poll isn't it. It's hard to vote on this one because all the choices are all good reasons.

Age can be a big factor. It seems unless a band had outstanding success in the past such as, let's say, Fleetwood Mac, they will have a hard time surfacing again. I think the market dictates that youth is attractive and sells. I can't think of many new older stars out there.

Other music, media, stubborness...all kind of related. If the trend is towards a certain style, people will tend not to open up to something different like The Fixx. But media always helps. I'm hoping that VH1's Save the Music show will make people take notice.

There's been discussion about how good the The Fixx is as a band, the worth of their albums and such. Maybe the band isn't great. But I think they are good enough to be appreciated among some of the bands that xxif listed. The Fixx hasn't done an "Automatic" album, but I think they are as good or better than R.E.M.

Perhaps what matters more than appreciation is how one feels about The Fixx. As a fan, they strike some kind of chord in me...they grab me. They are my favorite. It's natural to hope others would feel the same way.

But maybe not too many others. For now it's nice to be able to get up close and personal with them. :)

xxif
12-01-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by dejapete
Hmmm. This IS a poll isn't it. It's hard to vote on this one because all the choices are all good reasons.

Age can be a big factor. It seems unless a band had outstanding success in the past such as, let's say, Fleetwood Mac, they will have a hard time surfacing again. I think the market dictates that youth is attractive and sells. I can't think of many new older stars out there.

Other music, media, stubborness...all kind of related. If the trend is towards a certain style, people will tend not to open up to something different like The Fixx. But media always helps. I'm hoping that VH1's Save the Music show will make people take notice.

There's been discussion about how good the The Fixx is as a band, the worth of their albums and such. Maybe the band isn't great. But I think they are good enough to be appreciated among some of the bands that xxif listed. The Fixx hasn't done an "Automatic" album, but I think they are as good or better than R.E.M.

Perhaps what matters more than appreciation is how one feels about The Fixx. As a fan, they strike some kind of chord in me...they grab me. They are my favorite. It's natural to hope others would feel the same way.

But maybe not too many others. For now it's nice to be able to get up close and personal with them. :)


It really hasn't been much of a poll though;only 17 votes tallied. But that's neither here nor there. There's an important context here that should be distinguished. By "appreciation",I understand that to be aesthetically and critically motivated-the ultimate QUALITY of the music,as opposed to just "sales and radio-play". I would distinguish that definition(appreciation) from say "popularity" which I suspect is where a lot of you die-hard,unobjective and biased fans are coming from. If the issue is sheer lack of popularity due to the above 5 points,I would then probably agree. But the real reason behind The Fixx not being taken seriously as a formidible,creative,influential musical force among critics and serious aficionados has a lot less to do with those 5 points,I can assure you.

How could you say "maybe the band isn't great",then turn on a dime in the next sentence and assert that they "are good enough to be appreciated among the bands" I had mentioned previously? That's contradictory and makes little sense;not to mention,grossly untrue. The Fixx have never made anything even remotely as good as R.E.M.'s "Automatic For The People";and rock'n'roll's history books show this time and again:lots on R.E.M.,little to nothing on The Fixx,maybe a foot-note,at best. I'm sorry,but it's a fact.

What is important for unwavering fans of The Fixx is exactly what you said about "how they make you feel" personally;they "strike a chord" in you,they "grab you". That's all fine and well,but this unofficial campaign to convince others of The Fixx's so-called relevance in the grand-scheme-of-things within the rock'n'roll canon(i.e.-this music history's greatest artists) is a flagrant losing battle. I'm sorry,but it's a fact.

Just continue getting "up close and personal" with them to suit your own desires(again,it's your right),but don't expect not to be challenged by someone who's better acquainted with rock'n'roll's history and canon of artists who made the biggest impact over the past 50 years et al.

No egregious disrespect intended.

xxif

dejapete
12-02-2004, 12:13 AM
Respectful disagreement is welcome. After all, I'm just tossing out opinions and observations.

I pretty much agree with what xxif says. Is the The Fixx a good band? Sure. Are they great in the scheme of music history? Not really. As I had said, the band does something for me. Not because I think they're the best darned band ever.

I haven't read the books that xxif mentioned. So it's confusing to me that The Beatles and R.E.M. are on the same list. This uninformed person sees R.E.M. as not such a great a band, although I do like them very much.

Jeanne Thelen
12-02-2004, 11:51 AM
Okay.. maybe I am just being overly sensitive, because I have just spent 2 days with the most sweet,wonderful,kind,loving and funny men I have ever had the pleasure to encounter in my life!! And it pains my heart to hear anything negetive about them, in any means...I respect each of your individual opinions..and I know I do not have to read this thread... But please, I am now begging you....lets not rehash this question which will only turn into ugliness and hurt feelings among the members of the board...Let's learn from this and past threads that have been deleted for this very reason......okay????

xxif
12-02-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Jeanne Thelen
Okay.. maybe I am just being overly sensitive, because I have just spent 2 days with the most sweet,wonderful,kind,loving and funny men I have ever had the pleasure to encounter in my life!! And it pains my heart to hear anything negetive about them, in any means...I respect each of your individual opinions..and I know I do not have to read this thread... But please, I am now begging you....lets not rehash this question which will only turn into ugliness and hurt feelings among the members of the board...Let's learn from this and past threads that have been deleted for this very reason......okay????


You ARE being "overly sensitive",but I guess I can understand that due to your unbending bias in favour of the band. In the end,it's to be expected(given the immediate cyber-surroundings,for the most part) that I'm preaching to the unconvertible.

But please,do me a favour o.k.? Don't say you have "respect" for my opinions and then issue a "gag order" just to appease your own opinions from being challenged and even perhaps discredited(in terms of generalizations,which is where my main arguement stems from). That's actually DISrepectful,and not to mention,hypocritical.

You have to understand Jeanne,that this is an open forum,supposedly democratic-friendly;and in this particular case,readily open for just this exact thread of controversial opinions. Wouldn't you agree?

dejapete
12-03-2004, 10:50 AM
Some friendly advice to xxif and to everyone for that matter:

If you state something you believe to be a fact, especially a controversial one, back it up with examples: quotes, book references, song samples, etc.


To everyone:

QTIP! Quit taking it personal. And never make personal attacks. Debating should be fun...as long as it doesn't break your brain. :)

Raych the Beach
12-05-2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by xxif
It really hasn't been much of a poll though;only 17 votes tallied. But that's neither here nor there. There's an important context here that should be distinguished. By "appreciation",I understand that to be aesthetically and critically motivated-the ultimate QUALITY of the music,as opposed to just "sales and radio-play". I would distinguish that definition(appreciation) from say "popularity" which I suspect is where a lot of you die-hard,unobjective and biased fans are coming from. If the issue is sheer lack of popularity due to the above 5 points,I would then probably agree. But the real reason behind The Fixx not being taken seriously as a formidible,creative,influential musical force among critics and serious aficionados has a lot less to do with those 5 points,I can assure you.

How could you say "maybe the band isn't great",then turn on a dime in the next sentence and assert that they "are good enough to be appreciated among the bands" I had mentioned previously? That's contradictory and makes little sense;not to mention,grossly untrue. The Fixx have never made anything even remotely as good as R.E.M.'s "Automatic For The People";and rock'n'roll's history books show this time and again:lots on R.E.M.,little to nothing on The Fixx,maybe a foot-note,at best. I'm sorry,but it's a fact.

What is important for unwavering fans of The Fixx is exactly what you said about "how they make you feel" personally;they "strike a chord" in you,they "grab you". That's all fine and well,but this unofficial campaign to convince others of The Fixx's so-called relevance in the grand-scheme-of-things within the rock'n'roll canon(i.e.-this music history's greatest artists) is a flagrant losing battle. I'm sorry,but it's a fact.

Just continue getting "up close and personal" with them to suit your own desires(again,it's your right),but don't expect not to be challenged by someone who's better acquainted with rock'n'roll's history and canon of artists who made the biggest impact over the past 50 years et al.

No egregious disrespect intended.

xxif

Certainly R.E.M.'s "Automatic for the Peope" was more popular, got more airplay, and is more noted than any Fixx album. But not remotely as good? My least favorite Fixx album is Phantoms and anything R.E.M. could put out pales in comparison. My favorite R.E.M album is Out of Time, yet it doesn't quite make my top 75 albums. Everything the Fixx has done is in my top 50. Understood that that's just my opinion, but I think most Fixx fans would agree with me.

Raych the Beach
12-05-2004, 01:28 PM
Who says the Fixx isn't great? Some stupid rock book written by someone who's never been to a Fixx concert? Who is he to judge then? Sure the Beatles are great. People like the Rolling Stones pale in comparison to the Fixx. R.E.M.? Good band, but not even close. Most of the people who put R.E.M. over the Fixx quite simply do not own a single Fixx CD. Anyone care to disagree? And by the way, I love rock books.

Steve Pariseau
12-05-2004, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by xxif
Look here,"Sgt, Pepper" is a masterpiece,"London Calling" is a masterpiece,"Automatic For The People" is a masterpiece,"OK Computer" is a masterpiece. "Reach The Beach" and "Walkabout" are GOOD albums(at best!),and no one with any musical credibility would think otherwise. "Calm Animals",on the other hand,is a very weak album. It has a couple of decent tunes("Precious Stone","I'm Life",...umm"Driven Out"),and even they aren't "classics" by any stretch.



Sgt Pepper a masterpiece? Agreed but Abbey Road is even better.
London Calling a msterpiece? I wish I had it to scope out.
Automatic For The People a masterpeice? Well that's your opinion. It's good, but overrated - like most U2 and other REM albums. If I had to say REM had a materpeice I'd say it was Out of Time like Ray.
And Radiohead OK Computer is not appealing in the slightest.
I owned it and played it and played it and kept thinking "this is so highly praised by the crititcs that I HAVE to like it" and it just didn't work out - because to me it is boring and unappealing. I have other Radiohead albums that I dig so I'm not anti-Radiohead.

Thanks be to God we all like different stuff otherwise we wouldn't have anything to argure about.

preciousstone75
12-06-2004, 08:15 AM
that would be true, wouldn't it??? be nice! :D

xxif
03-30-2005, 06:18 PM
Why aren't The Fixx appreciated...hmmm...Why aren't The Fixx......appreciated...umm,yeah...that's a real head-scatcher,that is. Odds makers in Vegas are still shaking their heads. :D

dejapete
03-30-2005, 07:11 PM
Worth a dice roll I'd say.

xxif
03-30-2005, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by dejapete
Worth a dice roll I'd say.

Snake eyes! ;)

dejapete
03-30-2005, 08:37 PM
Keep tossing. Long shot, but they might pay off big.

xxif
03-30-2005, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by dejapete
Keep tossing. Long shot, but they might pay off big.

Nah,...I'm bored. I think I'll move on to a card game or slot machine,or maybe I'll check out The Rockettes...mmmmmm...Rockettes...long legs...heaving bosoms...big head-dresses...yes! :D

dejapete
03-31-2005, 04:54 AM
That reminds me of one of my favorite cartoons:

"Girls, girls! Show me the girls! Where are the girls!"

xxif
03-31-2005, 11:40 AM
It's all about the ladies,man,...ALL about the ladies!......and great music...(preferably indie stuff) :D

jim
05-02-2005, 05:18 PM
I've already commented on this a few times, so I'll just encapsulate my argument:

1. The Fixx will never be thought of as one of rock's top bands- not quite enough popularity for a long enough time. If they would have had about 5 straight albums with the popularity of Reach the Beach, we might be talking a whole different ballgame here. But they didn't, so their effect on the world of music will never reach the level of U2 and REM.

2. Even stating that, though, I believe the Fixx to be a better overall band than most. Their best work, to me, rivals U2 and REM. It contains socially concious messages that equal and many times better those 2 bands, but the lack of sales leaves them under the radar to be considered on the same level.

3. If we were only talking the history of say 1981-1986, I would say The Fixx would have to be considered one of the great bands of the period (sales, hits, and exposure all considered). But the bands that are thought of as the "great ones of all time" all hang around for longer in the spotlight.

Don't get me wrong, I would put the work of the Fixx up against U2 and REM . I would consider Want that Life to be superior to anything U2 or REM have put out in the last 5 years. The Fixx does not have a "Joshua Tree" or "Automatic for the People" though and U2 and REM have been living off their reputations built by those seminal albums for years. They are like aging baseball players who had great seasons 20 years ago and continue to get voted into all-star games for their past work.

And many people wrongly compare great bands (like the Fixx) with a long history of good music with watershed albums. Nevermind by Nirvana, London Calling by the Clash, and even Saturday Night Fever, and Thriller can all be considered high water marks in music history, but that doesn't mean that the artist is supremely great. It often means that they simply captured "lightning in a bottle" for one album, being in the right place in time and creating a great work once that changes the course of music.

After stating all this, I tend to agree with xxif, that the Fixx did not achieve greatness in music history because sales and exposure really determine "greatness" in the eyes of music historians. I think they are one of the truly great bands ever, as songwriters, musicians, and lyricists. But the History of Music will see them as a footnote, as being one of the better New Wave bands in the 80's.

Nobody ever said historians were that bright, afterall I have a history degree.

Jim

jim
05-02-2005, 05:23 PM
Also, this poll should include the possibility of voting that the Fixx don't make the right kind of music. We're in the grunge, hip-hop, rap era, and quite frankly the only exceptions to this will be sappy love songs.

There are great songwriters everywhere, Aimee Mann and Neil Finn being examples, but the 20-something cd buying public wants grunge, rap, and hip-hop. I think "style of music" should be a poll choice.

Jim

xxif
05-03-2005, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by jim
I've already commented on this a few times, so I'll just encapsulate my argument:

1. The Fixx will never be thought of as one of rock's top bands- not quite enough popularity for a long enough time. If they would have had about 5 straight albums with the popularity of Reach the Beach, we might be talking a whole different ballgame here. But they didn't, so their effect on the world of music will never reach the level of U2 and REM.

2. Even stating that, though, I believe the Fixx to be a better overall band than most. Their best work, to me, rivals U2 and REM. It contains socially concious messages that equal and many times better those 2 bands, but the lack of sales leaves them under the radar to be considered on the same level.

3. If we were only talking the history of say 1981-1986, I would say The Fixx would have to be considered one of the great bands of the period (sales, hits, and exposure all considered). But the bands that are thought of as the "great ones of all time" all hang around for longer in the spotlight.

Don't get me wrong, I would put the work of the Fixx up against U2 and REM . I would consider Want that Life to be superior to anything U2 or REM have put out in the last 5 years. The Fixx does not have a "Joshua Tree" or "Automatic for the People" though and U2 and REM have been living off their reputations built by those seminal albums for years. They are like aging baseball players who had great seasons 20 years ago and continue to get voted into all-star games for their past work.

And many people wrongly compare great bands (like the Fixx) with a long history of good music with watershed albums. Nevermind by Nirvana, London Calling by the Clash, and even Saturday Night Fever, and Thriller can all be considered high water marks in music history, but that doesn't mean that the artist is supremely great. It often means that they simply captured "lightning in a bottle" for one album, being in the right place in time and creating a great work once that changes the course of music.

After stating all this, I tend to agree with xxif, that the Fixx did not achieve greatness in music history because sales and exposure really determine "greatness" in the eyes of music historians. I think they are one of the truly great bands ever, as songwriters, musicians, and lyricists. But the History of Music will see them as a footnote, as being one of the better New Wave bands in the 80's.

Nobody ever said historians were that bright, afterall I have a history degree.

Jim

Alas,the "door of opportunity(and provocation)" has,once again,been swung wide-open. :D

Oh my,...Jim,Jim,Jim...umm...how's it goin' dude? Umm,where-to-start...Okay,your first "point of argument" then:

1. The "fact" that The Fixx will NEVER be considered one of "rock's top bands" has nothing to do with having not scored "5 straight hit albums". There have been several bands/artists who enjoyed sustained chart and sales success,but also will never be included in the "Rock'n'Roll Canon" of legendary/classic/influential artists. Take for example:Hall and Oates,Phil Collins(and even post-Gabriel,Collins-led Genesis),Huey Lewis and The News,Foreigner,Journey,REO Speedwagon,Bryan Adams,Whitney Houston and even New Kids On The Block. All these acts had several hit albums,spawning many,many smash hits,yet none of them ever garnered great reviews,nor the respect of serious,cultivated music fans and journalists. And I highly doubt any of them will be seriously considered for the "rock'n'roll Hall of Fame"(maybe Phil Collins,but I wouldn't agree with such an induction,solely due to the fact that he's simply been around so long). Conversely,artists(true artists!) like The Velvet Underground,The Smiths,Big Star,Nick Drake,The Modern Lovers,Yo La Tengo,Pavement,Tim and Jeff Buckley,The Stooges,Joy Division,XTC,Husker Du,The Replacements,etc,etc,never had a Top 40 hit or album(particularly in North America,because The Smiths,for instance,did manage a few hits in their native Britain),but won the devotion of a cult following,and the respect of credible music journalists whose collective fingers were/are on the cultural pulse of the times,particularly in terms of "cultural relevance",as opposed to just "commercial notoriety",which is to say,they looked for(and continue to look for):substance,creativity,intelligence,originality ,and in some cases,political/social consciousness(although there have been many musicians who attempted to be "political and socially conscious,but ended up coming across as pretentious,heavy-handed,or plain silly).

2. The Fixx seriously rivalling,even bettering U2 and R.E.M.? This is clearly an ultra-subjective and biased opinion. You can't seriously think that The Fixx have written something better than,say,"Sunday Bloody Sunday" or "Pride(In The Name Of Love) or "Where The Streets Have No Name" or "One" or "In God's Country",just to name a few in a long list;and that's just from U2! What about classics from R.E.M. like:"Perfect Circle" or "Swan Swan H" or "World Leader Pretend" or "Losing My Religion" or "Find The River" or "E-Bow The Letter"?,again,just to name a few in a long list. Record sales have nothing to do with the fact that The Fixx are not in the same league with legendary bands like U2 and R.E.M.(despite the unfortunate fact that both these bands currently suffer from depleted reputations due to lack-lustre late-period work). Bono and Micheal are clearly better and more poetic lyricists than Cy Curnin. Listen,I've studied literature for over 10 years,and I know a great set of lyrics when I see/hear them. That's not to say that Cy "hasn't" written fine lyrics,he has(I've mentioned " One Thing Leads To Another" as an impressive example,but his consistency in something to be desired,I'm afraid).

3. The Fixx were definitely among the elite bands during the specific years of 1983 and 1984,period. Their debut was in 1982 with "Shuttered Room",which completely flopped commercially. After the great success of "Reach The Beach" and the more modestly successful follow-up:"Phantoms",each subsequent Fixx album did less and less business,sales and chart-wise,until they totally fell off the "radar"(of which they're currently still wallowing in).

It's awfully near-sighted of you to suggest that U2 and R.E.M. have only been sustaining their respective reputations solely on one album each. U2 have no less than 5 acknowledged classic in their outstanding catalogue:"Boy"-1980,"War"-1983,"The Unforgettable Fire"-1984,"The Joshua Tree"-1987,and "Achtung Baby"-1991. Four of those albums were included in Rolling Stones',relatively recent Top 500 greatest albums of all time list. As for R.E.M.,3 of their albums were on that list:"Murmur"-1983,"Document"-1987,and,of course,"Automatic For The People"-1992-"Murmur" actually placed higher on the list than "AFTP". And there were several other R.E.M. albums that deserved serious consideration on that list,and have actually wound up on other "best of" surveys,like:"Out Of Time"-1991,"Reckoning"-1984,"Lifes Rich Pageant"-1986,"Green"-1988,and even "New Adventures In Hi-Fi"-1996. I've NEVER seen a Fixx album on these types of lists from reputable rock publications.

Finally,Jim,I don't remember ever having said that "the Fixx did not achieve greatness because sales and exposure determine "greatness" in the eyes of music historians". Not only is this reference a blatant misrepresentation of me,but the notion itself is ridiculous and clearly inaccurate. Rock encyclopedia's and statistics'n'facts books take care of the "chart placings and other stats". Rock historians focus primarily on the cultural significance and overall influence of rock's "prime shakers and movers" throughout the entire rock era,whether they were commercially and artistically groundbreaking,like The Beatles,for instance,or simply musically/lyrically innovative,like The Velvet Underground.

That quip about "historians" not being "that bright" was rather harsh,not to mention,presumptuous wasn't it? Don't assume having a "history degree" automatically renders all other historians as intellectually-challenged as you appear to be by self-admission,however droll you wanted to come across,I'm afraid. Credibility and mere cursory knowledge are mutually exclusive disiplines,and neither the twain shall meet.

No blatant disrespect intended. Other than our obvious differences of opinion and fact-rendering,I certainly wish you well,Jim.

jim
05-03-2005, 03:18 PM
My comment about Historians/history majors was merely self-deprecating humor. A jab at myself (some days I think of myself as rather bright), so as not to come across as a know-it-all. I busted my a$$ for that history and political science degree and am actually darn proud of it. But I choose to live by the advice of
Romans 12:16 "Do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation". So I try not to think too much of myself, lest pride cometh before my fall.

And to set the record straight, I wasn't trying to misrepresent or quote you about the Fixx lack of stature in music. I was agreeing with your assessment of their place in rock history and the part I added about sales and popularity was strictly my opinion. No attempt at dragging you into my opinion. Sorry.

I can't disagree with really any of what you've said. I know as a student of music, you are much more learned than I. And I have no disrespect towards groups like REM and U2. I love their music, I think they have had a huge influence on rock music and deserve their props. My contention with them is that they seem to hit the high point and people still speak of them as if their making the most influential music around. You, yourself stated 5 masterpieces of U2, all of which were better than their last effort. Yet this one is Grammy nominated and viewed with similar status of their 80's work that was groundbreaking and fantastic.

I agree that lyrically Bono and Michael are superior lyricists. Sometimes the Fixx lyrics are borderline mysticism, with some interesting ideas, but meandering and loose. Camphor, Outside, and the likes come to mind. I do think as a band of musicians that the Fixx are on the same level as some great bands. Their use of, but not overexposure of the synthesizer has been a great key to their songs, as has Jamie's guitar work. And Cy has a very pleasant voice that complements the songs very well. They come across as cooler and a little stiffer than U2 or REM but, IMHO, those bands do not put them to shame by any means.

After seeing your point about artists with 5+ high selling albums, I must conclude you are right. I guess a better way of saying my point would be to say that sales and exposure certainly can HELP boost your image in the mind of critics and rock historians. You need to have something important to say, but prestige and sales don't hurt your cause- they can often help. Except in cases like Stevie Wonder having been an innovator most of his career and then coming out with "I just called to say I love you".

In the end, I agree that the Fixx is not U2 or REM. But I would argue that some of their material is on the same plane. Songs like "One Thing" and "Driven Out" may not be "New Years Day" or "Losing my Religion", but they rival some of their other work.

And many groups are different yet I don't think that automatically characterizes them as great, as some rock historians tend to do. The Violent Femmes are often heralded as genius, and I agree with your inclusion of The Replacements. But I think too many consider quirkiness and different as innovative. If that were the case, then Enya should be included among music's greats (this is a joke). My contention is that the Replacements may have been greater for a period, but on the whole I would take the Fixx body of work over the entire Replacements/Westerberg catalog. I know you're gonna let me have it over that sacrilege, but I enjoy these discussions.

I love music and I love to talk about music. And I know my high opinion of the Fixx is a reach, but to me they are just an overall great band. The sound, the musicianship, the vocals, the societally relevant discourse all make them a great band in my opinion. I know they're not going to the rock and roll hall of fame, but I think some of their stuff has bordered on greatness, and some has snuck into greatness territory.

P.S. I'm also a Rundgren fan and consider him to be one of rock's more important figures. Any opinions on that matter?

Steve Pariseau
05-03-2005, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by xxif
...Bono and Micheal are clearly better and more poetic lyricists than Cy Curnin.

To use your own words "This is clearly an ultra-subjective and biased opinion."

We all have sets of poets we feel are better than others. Maybe you just relate better to Bono and Michael - that doesn't make them "better and more poetic". I'm not saying that everything Cy has penned is a masterpiece - that is simply not the case, however, Bono and Michael have their share of cheese.

xxif
05-03-2005, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by jim


And to set the record straight, I wasn't trying to misrepresent or quote you about the Fixx lack of stature in music. I was agreeing with your assessment of their place in rock history and the part I added about sales and popularity was strictly my opinion. No attempt at dragging you into my opinion. Sorry.

I can't disagree with really any of what you've said. I know as a student of music, you are much more learned than I. And I have no disrespect towards groups like REM and U2. I love their music, I think they have had a huge influence on rock music and deserve their props. My contention with them is that they seem to hit the high point and people still speak of them as if their making the most influential music around. You, yourself stated 5 masterpieces of U2, all of which were better than their last effort. Yet this one is Grammy nominated and viewed with similar status of their 80's work that was groundbreaking and fantastic.

I agree that lyrically Bono and Michael are superior lyricists. Sometimes the Fixx lyrics are borderline mysticism, with some interesting ideas, but meandering and loose. Camphor, Outside, and the likes come to mind. I do think as a band of musicians that the Fixx are on the same level as some great bands. Their use of, but not overexposure of the synthesizer has been a great key to their songs, as has Jamie's guitar work. And Cy has a very pleasant voice that complements the songs very well. They come across as cooler and a little stiffer than U2 or REM but, IMHO, those bands do not put them to shame by any means.

After seeing your point about artists with 5+ high selling albums, I must conclude you are right. I guess a better way of saying my point would be to say that sales and exposure certainly can HELP boost your image in the mind of critics and rock historians. You need to have something important to say, but prestige and sales don't hurt your cause- they can often help. Except in cases like Stevie Wonder having been an innovator most of his career and then coming out with "I just called to say I love you".

In the end, I agree that the Fixx is not U2 or REM. But I would argue that some of their material is on the same plane. Songs like "One Thing" and "Driven Out" may not be "New Years Day" or "Losing my Religion", but they rival some of their other work.

And many groups are different yet I don't think that automatically characterizes them as great, as some rock historians tend to do. The Violent Femmes are often heralded as genius, and I agree with your inclusion of The Replacements. But I think too many consider quirkiness and different as innovative. If that were the case, then Enya should be included among music's greats (this is a joke). My contention is that the Replacements may have been greater for a period, but on the whole I would take the Fixx body of work over the entire Replacements/Westerberg catalog. I know you're gonna let me have it over that sacrilege, but I enjoy these discussions.


P.S. I'm also a Rundgren fan and consider him to be one of rock's more important figures. Any opinions on that matter?

Hey Jim,

That "misrepresentation thing" was an honest mistake-it's cool,Jim. :)

I think you make a valid point about U2,particularly,continuing to get great reviews and many accolades,despite an obvious decline in the quality of their later stuff. It's typical,though,that they would receive "Grammy nominations". I think the "Grammy's" are a joke,anyway,and hardly displaying an abundance of credibility;they try to hide the fact that they are simply awarding "commercially successful" perfomers under the pathetic guise of aesthetic quality- talk about hypocrisy! As for R.E.M.,actually, their last album was all but crucified in the critical press,and deservedly so I feel;"Around The Sun" was a horrible album rife with lifeless,insipid crap. And it flopped big-time on the charts and in sales,unlike U2's "How To Dismantle...",which has now sold in excess of 3 million copies!(???) The mainstream is truly a cesspool of garbage!

There definitely was a sense of "mysticism",particularly,on "Walkabout"(how convincing is debatable,but nonetheless). You're right about "Camphor" coming to mind;I would add "Treasure It" and "Chase The Fire" as well.

Yeah, it's hard to believe that the genius behind such masterpieces like:"Music For The Mind","Songbook","Innervisions",and "Songs In The Key Of Life" would wind up producing scandalously innocuous,radio-pandering pap like "I Just Called To Say I Love You". I love that scene in the John Cusack classic "High Fidelity" when the hilarious Jack Black character confronted the "square" looking for that very song-...mmboye,boye!

Okay,I would concede that a "couple" Fixx tunes do surpass a few U2 and R.E.M. songs. It's certainly true that not "everything" those two bands have recorded constituted "brilliance". I wholly disliked U2's "All That You Can't Leave Behind". What an unbelievably over-rated snooze-fest! And,admittedly,much of Micheal Stipe's recent lyrics have descended into platitudinous nadir's of "cheese"- as I'm sure Steve will find rather "affirming",coming from me! :D

How DARE you like The Fixx more than The Replacements!!! :p But seriously,we're talking about two completely different bands,both in sound and lyrical content,not to mention overall attitude. I think The Mats are a far better example of the original "rock'n'roll spirit",but in the end,I guess I can understand some people's preference for The Fixx's sound and lyrics. Again,it's definitely debatable,and warranting an aesthetic distinction,whatever their external differences,but,hey,I'm not here to legislate what can and cannot be listened to. I say "knock yerself out,dude!",if you dig The Fixx-boys more!

Todd Rundgren is a god in my books,if for no other reason than his producing XTC'S mindblowing masterpiece:"Skylarking". I say thank the heavens for Todd Rundgren,because he pretty much saved that album from oblivion with his "take no prisoners",stubborn approach to the realization of it,despite the stage by stage resistance of,particularly,XTC's main song-writer,Andy Partridge. Basically,Todd did for "Skylarking",what Ezra Pound did for T.S. Eliot's "The Wasteland". Todd took a sequential mess and edited/produced a cohesive,thematic work that easily places it among the greatest albums ever made! Aside from his considerable production genius,Todd,of course,recorded two of the seminal,Brian Wilsonesque(in terms of studio brilliance,particularly) masterworks of the '70s:"Something/Anything"-1972 and "A Wizard,A True Star"-1973. I gotta admit though that I wasn't overly enamored with his "Utopia" side project. I'm not exactly a fan of "prog-rock"(though some of it is decent).

xxif
05-03-2005, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Steve Pariseau
To use your own words "This is clearly an ultra-subjective and biased opinion."

We all have sets of poets we feel are better than others. Maybe you just relate better to Bono and Michael - that doesn't make them "better and more poetic". I'm not saying that everything Cy has penned is a masterpiece - that is simply not the case, however, Bono and Michael have their share of cheese.


Look,Steve,I can totally understand your defensiveness in favour of The Fixx's lyrics(in particular;don't even get me started on the obvious differences in their respective "musical" qualities),but there IS such a thing as "cultivated,aesthetic objectivity",which also goes hand-in-hand with a vast,all encompassing knowledge/familiarity with the entire "rock era" to bolster one's more informed argument,as opposed to a justifiably suspicious "ultra-subjective,biased opinion",lacking important "points-of-reference".

The fact of the matter is that you have invested emotionally,taste-wise,and personally into The Fixx's music. I think I can venture a guess that from the first time you heard them in the early '80s(over 20 years ago),regardless of any sense of aesthetics(which I'm sure you did not have back then,nor did I;we were just kids who simply liked what we liked without critical judgement;it was simply innocent enjoyment for it's own sake),they made an indelible impression on you that now represents a part of your "identity",and signifies an important,nostalgic part of your personal past,hence,your quick-to-defend-them reflex without any genuine "objectivity".

It's true that people have "sets of poets(writers,lyricists) we feel are better than others",but that doesn't mean their opinions/tastes are aesthetically valid. There is a "cultural criteria"(I admit it's not perfect,but it's a tenable guide) that has been established and perpetuated over the ages;it's usually referred to as "The Canon". Take for example,Shakespeare(I know he's an easy and extreme example,but still suffices my point). We both know that the average person doesn't care much for "the bard",because,for the most part,they aren't familiar enough with his work,nor time. Now if someone were to claim that,say,Edward Albee(the celebrated author of "Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf?") was a better playwrite than Shakespeare,one who was cultivated and knowledgable in the area of "theatre" would laugh in his face. Now that proponent of Albee's work has every right to choose Edward over William,but that opinion lacks validity,in terms of the cultural hierarchy of "the Canon",when you consider the inarguable contribution Shakespeare made to theatre and poetry,in general.There is simply no debating it(though it does happen,for a number of complicated reasons too vast and labyrithine to get into here).

Here's a more tangible example from rock'n'roll. Bob Dylan is single-handedly responsible for introducing socially-conscious and literary approachs to song-writing into the "rock forum". He influenced The Beatles,The Kinks,The Rolling Stones,The Doors,The Byrds(who borrowed from him a lot),Marvin Gaye,etc,etc,etc. Now,to claim that,say,Fred Durst was a better song-writer than Bob Dylan(which I'm positive many Gen-Xer's have,for instance!)would be to grossly expose one's ignorance and blatant lack of range,intelligence and credibility in such aesthetic matters. They are,of course,entitled to that opinion(mainly because,of course,Fred Durst,is contemporary,like them,and therefore is an unqualified spokes-person for their so-called generation,which is ,not surprisingly,defended,narcissistically and ultra-subjectively,because it involves them "directly",therefore it "must" be superior to all past era's for its own sake)but it 's devoid of any "cultural criteria" enough to be taken seriously and validated. Can anyone tenably say that Fred Durst has made a major contribution to rock'n'roll befitting that of a Bob Dylan by comparison? It's laughable to think so!

Now,the facts are in,have been in,and will continue to be validated by those with the requisite credibility to declare,time and again,that U2 and R.E.M. have made a far greater contribution to the annals of rock'n'roll than The Fixx have. The pattern of praise and respect(at least for their classic early and middle-period work)has been confirmed all over the world(certainly in the West),by endless,non-affiliated publications such as:Rolling Stone,Mojo,Spin,Musician,Vox,Q,Uncut,Alternative Press,Melody Maker,Billboard,Pitchfork,etc,etc.

Again,you have every,inalienable right to prefer The Fixx over U2 and R.E.M.,but,seriously,don't try to tell me they are in the same league or better. I'm sorry,but it just isn't true.

Respectfully,xxif

Steve Pariseau
05-04-2005, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by xxif
...Now,to claim that,say,Fred Durst was a better song-writer than Bob Dylan...

HA HA! Laughing WAY out loud. That was hella funny dude. I like some of Limp Bizkit's music but the mindless lyrics are part of the enjoyment for me. When I put on LB I expect angry rebellious rant from Fred. Even Eminem is a better lyricist than Fred (when he is not fixated on hating his Mom & Dad). Anyway, the Dylan/Durst thing was an hysterically good example.


Originally posted by xxif
...U2 and R.E.M. have made a far greater contribution to the annals of rock'n'roll than The Fixx have.

...don't try to tell me they are in the same league or better. I'm sorry,but it just isn't true...

Um, yeah, read it again xxif. I didn't say The Fixx had made a greater contribution than U2 or REM.

I also didn't try to tell you they were in the same league or better. Sounds like you're taking this whole thing with a bit of emotion. I guess passion IS an important element for a writer, but jeeze dude, don't accuse me of statements I didn't make. If you read it again you'll hopefully notice that I pointed out Bono and Michael have their share of cheesy lyrics (Shiny Happy People for example - I like the song - but the lyrics are cheesy).

xxif
05-04-2005, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by Steve Pariseau
HA HA! Laughing WAY out loud. That was hella funny dude. I like some of Limp Bizkit's music but the mindless lyrics are part of the enjoyment for me. When I put on LB I expect angry rebellious rant from Fred. Even Eminem is a better lyricist than Fred (when he is not fixated on hating his Mom & Dad). Anyway, the Dylan/Durst thing was an hysterically good example.



Um, yeah, read it again xxif. I didn't say The Fixx had made a greater contribution than U2 or REM.

I also didn't try to tell you they were in the same league or better. Sounds like you're taking this whole thing with a bit of emotion. I guess passion IS an important element for a writer, but jeeze dude, don't accuse me of statements I didn't make. If you read it again you'll hopefully notice that I pointed out Bono and Michael have their share of cheesy lyrics (Shiny Happy People for example - I like the song - but the lyrics are cheesy).


Yeah,I figured you'd get a kick out of a ludicrous example like Fred Durst to compare Bob Dylan with,but that kind of moronic opinion(Durst rocks! Dylan sucks!)actually exists;I was simply making a point about ill-informed,uncultivated biases in contemporary culture,ultimately being invalid when a general claim of superiority is made. Glad you enjoyed the laugh. It's all about spreading good cheer and entertainment,dude!(that is,besides educating you) :p

That's true,you did not say The Fixx made a greater contribution than U2 or R.E.M.(I'm glad you can see that),but the implication was there when you attempted to lump all opinions as equally valid by trying to turn my own definition "ultra-subjective and biased opinion" back toward me and my "more objective" argument. Tenable comparisons are very much applicable here. Your subtext was saying a lot more than even you seem to notice,apparently.

Steve,ole buddy,it doesn't seem to matter how many times we "butt heads",and how I consistently dismantle your retorts,you just keep coming after me. I truly admire your tenacity! You keep me on my toes,friend! :cool:

p.s.- You actually subject yourself to Limp Bizkit's horrendous ****,because you get "enjoyment" out of listening to "angry,rebellious rants" from idiots?('cause hell knows there's no redeemable "music" to be heard) This is analogous to watching "Jerry Springer" and the cast of invariable twits that appear on it, just for the "nothing-else-better-to-do-with-my-time-but-I-feel-good-about-myself-now" hell of it? Why do you hate yourself so much? We all LIKE you,Steve! Exorcise yourself,brother! from such time-wasting activities;free your mind and create more time-constructive experiences for yourself! Heal thyself,my son! :D

xxif
05-04-2005, 02:20 AM
Oh yeah,"Shiny Happy People" IS classic "cheese",for sure. Still,I like the song too. In this instant, our beautiful minds harmonize with the poetic delicacy of a Simon and Garfunkel ballad..."Aaarrrre you goooing to Scar...". ;)

Steve Pariseau
05-04-2005, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by xxif
>>>Your subtext was saying a lot more than even you seem to notice,apparently.

Steve,ole buddy,it doesn't seem to matter how many times we "butt heads",and how I consistently dismantle your retorts,you just keep coming after me. I truly admire your tenacity! You keep me on my toes,friend! :cool:

p.s.- You actually subject yourself to Limp Bizkit's horrendous ****,because you get "enjoyment" out of listening to "angry,rebellious rants" ...

Reading between the lines I see. I don't recall planting any hidden meanings, just plain text.:D

As far as butting heads goes, there are plenty of things you have to say that I agree with but I'm not the type to contribute excessive "me toos". When we disagree I tend to toss out my opinion knowing full well you are about to be going overboard with your rants. It's usually all in good fun though.

Historically, you have offered good debate with consistatnly well pieced delivery. I have read everything you've written here and normally look forward to such creativity. You have a proven ability to submit carefully worded and researched debate. The disappointment is that you resort to, as you put it, "dismantle" other's views - and not just my views. Ultimately your dismastlings are a waste of an otherwise uncommon talent for diction. Rather than attempting to realize another perspective exists you elect to criticize and declare other's opinions invalid. Seemingly to uphold self gratification embelished with self proclaimed credentials. I spoke with a lurker in Malibu this March who even mentioned hesitation in posting on this board for fear of your challenging her validity with whatever she was going to say. Likewise, we haven't heard from Raych The Beach since his slaying on this very thread. I'm willing to bet there are others who have not spoken up here for similar reason. I could be partially to blame for that as you and I go back and forth once in a while. I can't make the timid participate, nor can I make the brazen lighten up. But I can point out the persepective above with the hopes you will consider it in future writings.

I know you are better than this xxif.
There's a difference between good debate, sharing your views, and criticizing others and the things they like. There are a lot of emotionally fragile members here. They are not all solid as a rock like yourself. Please respect that.

As far as Limp Bizkit goes, there are times when I crave loud distorted angst. I don't care for Lincoln Park or Papa Roach and haven't delved deep enough into the genre to know of any others. I think Limp Bizkit fits the bill for me on that rare occasion. It's kind of like every now and then I crave a silly mindless movie like Airplane or Goldmember. Or maybe an awful horror flick like Hellraiser. The mood comes around once in a while.

now exiting the lecture podium...

xxif
05-04-2005, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Steve Pariseau
Reading between the lines I see. I don't recall planting any hidden meanings, just plain text.:D

As far as butting heads goes, there are plenty of things you have to say that I agree with but I'm not the type to contribute excessive "me toos". When we disagree I tend to toss out my opinion knowing full well you are about to be going overboard with your rants. It's usually all in good fun though.

Historically, you have offered good debate with consistatnly well pieced delivery. I have read everything you've written here and normally look forward to such creativity. You have a proven ability to submit carefully worded and researched debate. The disappointment is that you resort to, as you put it, "dismantle" other's views - and not just my views. Ultimately your dismastlings are a waste of an otherwise uncommon talent for diction. Rather than attempting to realize another perspective exists you elect to criticize and declare other's opinions invalid. Seemingly to uphold self gratification embelished with self proclaimed credentials. I spoke with a lurker in Malibu this March who even mentioned hesitation in posting on this board for fear of your challenging her validity with whatever she was going to say. Likewise, we haven't heard from Raych The Beach since his slaying on this very thread. I'm willing to bet there are others who have not spoken up here for similar reason. I could be partially to blame for that as you and I go back and forth once in a while. I can't make the timid participate, nor can I make the brazen lighten up. But I can point out the persepective above with the hopes you will consider it in future writings.

I know you are better than this xxif.
There's a difference between good debate, sharing your views, and criticizing others and the things they like. There are a lot of emotionally fragile members here. They are not all solid as a rock like yourself. Please respect that.

As far as Limp Bizkit goes, there are times when I crave loud distorted angst. I don't care for Lincoln Park or Papa Roach and haven't delved deep enough into the genre to know of any others. I think Limp Bizkit fits the bill for me on that rare occasion. It's kind of like every now and then I crave a silly mindless movie like Airplane or Goldmember. Or maybe an awful horror flick like Hellraiser. The mood comes around once in a while.

now exiting the lecture podium...

Kudos,Steve,I thought you expressed yourself very well in that last post.

With all due respect,however,I must confess to taking umbrage(albeit,slight) with your referring to my assertive,counter-critiquing posts as "overboard...rants". I really think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Mine are nothing compared to the all too regular,merciless onslaughts I've seen(as I'm sure you have too) on other web-sites. The thing is is that if people are going to participate in a public forum where opinions are being expressed/declared/what-have-you,they have to accept that counter-views,which can potentially supercede their own,in terms of claiming a direct "value-judgement" over others,can and will confront them. I,myself,am not immune to such a prospect.

If someone asserts that they like The Fixx better than R.E.M.,say,and leaves it at that, as just expressing their constitutional right to prefer one band over the other,I find no problem with that. But if they post on a thread that The Fixx are "better" than R.E.M.,as a matter of "fact"(according to them),that is an open challenge that may or may not be taken up by another poster who may be more "cultivated and informed" in their knowledge and appreciation of music. There is no "equality" in pop-culture,and specifically,in this case,"rock music",nor should there be either(all opinions are NOT created equal),because that would make for one hellava boring,homogenized,faceless culture,wouldn't you agree? Moreover,and contra "idealism",there is no "equality" in the degree of "cultured individuals" as well;that's why there is such an endless network of contentious opinions tirelessly challenging others. Some have a more "developed knack" for critiquing than others. It's just the way it is.

Now,you DO make a valid point about (let's call it "cyber etiquette") how one should conduct oneself when engaging other posters,particularly at this site. However,I can't be held responsible for the "emotional fragility" of some fellow-posters,but that doesn't mean I can't contextualize such a vis a vis,and conscientiously "pull it back" some out of respect for their potential limitations(I know that sounds condescending,but it's no less true in certain cases)or ingenuousness.I found your mentioning the "lurker from Malibu" whose unwillingness to post here,solely because of me,a bit unsettling. It genuinely distresses me to think that my,perhaps,intimidating passion/conviction for music is coming across as mere "bullying". If you see her again,tell her I promise to be cordial,open-minded and respectful,but without compromising(at least within reason) my integrity,you understand.

The situation presently,on this thread,is that Jim and I are engaging in debate with one another with no discernible sense of overbearing behaviour on either of our parts. I find Jim's posts to be both enjoyable,stimulating,and chock full of good points. He doesn't seem to have an issue with my assertions,nor do I with his,though disagreements may(and do) crop up,we maintain respect for one another. This is the way I'd like to participate in all cyber-interactions. I realize that such uniformity is unlikely,but diplomacy shouldn't be that difficult. I must confess too that,from time to time,my ego does get the better of me,especially when I'm confronted by an obviously belligerent and similarly ego-driven poster-alas,my "chops" do water some. I say if it's a "level playing field",it's no holds barred! :D

That whole bit about "dismantling your retorts",Steve,was just me being a stubbornly competitive "goof",with tongue firmly set in cheek. I'm only human afterall,and not a "god",much to my frustration. :D

p.s.- You may have your Limp Bizkit,Steve,but believe me,I'm not without my own "guilty pleasures" too,which are all but devoid of any cultural nutrients!-Olivia Newton-John music!...cheesy '80s hits(of course,nostalgia plays a big part here)...comic book movies!...National Lampoon movies!...midget porn! :p

Steve Pariseau
05-04-2005, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by xxif
...I must confess to taking umbrage(albeit,slight) with your referring to my assertive,counter-critiquing posts as "overboard...rants". I really think that's a bit of an exaggeration.

...However,I can't be held responsible for the "emotional fragility" of some fellow-posters...I found your mentioning the "lurker from Malibu" whose unwillingness to post here,solely because of me,a bit unsettling. It genuinely distresses me to think that my,perhaps,intimidating passion/conviction for music is coming across as mere "bullying". If you see her again,tell her I promise to be cordial,open-minded and respectful,but without compromising(at least within reason) my integrity,you understand.

..!...midget porn! :p

Ah, yes, exaggeration is sometimes necessary to make a point while inserting a dash of comedy. But do notice I don't just exaggerate as bad habit for story telling purposes.

Agreed you can't be held responsible for the emotional frgility of others, however, I wanted you to be aware the epidemic existed.
I think my lurker friend will likely read this by weeks end and I do hope she someday joins us for however little, or much she so pleases.

LOL on the midget porn. I do hope you are joking:D
If you are NOT joking I encourage you to burn me a copy of your favourite and send it along.:p

xxif
05-05-2005, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Steve Pariseau
Ah, yes, exaggeration is sometimes necessary to make a point while inserting a dash of comedy. But do notice I don't just exaggerate as bad habit for story telling purposes.

Agreed you can't be held responsible for the emotional frgility of others, however, I wanted you to be aware the epidemic existed.
I think my lurker friend will likely read this by weeks end and I do hope she someday joins us for however little, or much she so pleases.

LOL on the midget porn. I do hope you are joking:D
If you are NOT joking I encourage you to burn me a copy of your favourite and send it along.:p

Point taken,regarding "exaggerations".I'm sure it goes without saying,but I'm wont to employing the occasional "exaggeration",myself. :D

You're absolutely right about there being an "epidemic" of emotionally fragile people. It's seems these days that one-in-three people appear to be on prosac or lithium or whatever other bi-polar medication and/or anti-depressant. Why is it so rampant now? I'm currently investigating the contemporary ramifications via:critical theory, cultural studies, philosophy, socio-economic structuring, psycho-historical development, etc. But,yeah,I agree that one should be mindful of the sensitivities of said people.

LOL...yeah,I was definitely just kidding about the "midget porn"! I prefer my porn in "standard form". :D

...say,how 'bout that Jenna Jameson,eh? Oh! that reminds me,my "special delivery" mail came today...gotta go!-hee-hee :cool:

jim
05-06-2005, 11:47 PM
No Hollywood Ending"?

Steve and xxif, once adversarial, have no found a common bond in all things porn. Midget porn, Jenna Jameson, hours of sitting around the 52" plasma watching "Girls gone wild".

All we are saying, give a piece a chance. These guys did, and a new friendship is born.

jim
05-07-2005, 12:09 AM
BTW,

I don't really think xxif is all that hard on people. In my cyber-encounters, I have found that his more reasoned arguments and the way he backs up his arguments encourage me to make my points more focused. I tend to start out rather sloppily, but after being challenged by the xxif-ster, I am forced to re-think my arguments and challenge them myself and make them more thought-out and concise. I enjoy chatting with him. He can be like a sounding board to bounce ideas against, often very helpful.

For those that are intimidated, just remember that xxif seems to have spent days upon weeks upon months dissecting music, so if you're gonna challenge him you better think out your argument before just blurting it out. I have made some sloppy cases and if we were lawyers, xxif would be kicking my butt in the trial on the facts, but the jury might prefer my calm, easygoing manner to xxif's seemingly condescending view. I don't think he is condescending, just quite a bit more confident than most, which intimidates most people.

Just don't be afraid to lose an argument, or to take criticism from others here. None of us mean any harm. I have been on some boards where blood is on the keyboards, and xxif is not nasty like people I've seen on other boards. And he will ease-off if you back off a lame argument. But if you really challenge him, he will not back down. You gotta take your lumps if you want to get in this game. But it's no fun to just sit the bench all the time and never play. Get in the game. Enough sports analogies for one night.

jim

For Example: If I say that my favorite band of the 90's was Toad the Wet Sprocket, xxif will leave me alone. But if contend that Toad was the "best" or "greatest" band of the 90's I will be in for a fight. Therefore, Toad is my favorite band of the 90's.

xxif
05-07-2005, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by jim
No Hollywood Ending"?

Steve and xxif, once adversarial, have no found a common bond in all things porn. Midget porn, Jenna Jameson, hours of sitting around the 52" plasma watching "Girls gone wild".

All we are saying, give a piece a chance. These guys did, and a new friendship is born.


"Giving a piece a chance" has once again come through in spades as the great "mediator and peace-maker" between a couple testosterone-spewing,Alpha males fighting over who gets the water-hole for themself. :D :p ;)

Bless all that is precious for the existence of WOMAN. :)

This reminds me of a classic exchange in Woody Allen's last masterpiece:"Deconstructing Harry". Allen's character "Harry Block" is at his 10 year-old son's school for a "parent/student day". He's sitting at a table with his son;behind them sits the son's teacher(played by Mariel Hemingway)eavesdropping and taken-aback by what she's hearing:

Harry:"Freud said the two most important things in life are the work you chose and SEX. When I was a kid we used to name our penises."
Son:"I'm going to name mine Dillinger."
Harry:"Dillinger!...Dillinger! That's brilliant! Dillinger was a genius in his chosen profession!...Women are god."
Son:"You mean God's a woman?"
Harry:"No,we don't know if there's a god,but THERE ARE WOMEN,and not in some imaginary world. They're right here on Earth!...and some of them...some of them shop at Victoria Secret!"

LOL!! That's classic! I love that film.

xxif
05-07-2005, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by jim


For Example: If I say that my favorite band of the 90's was Toad the Wet Sprocket, xxif will leave me alone. But if contend that Toad was the "best" or "greatest" band of the 90's I will be in for a fight. Therefore, Toad is my favorite band of the 90's.


Toad The Wet Sprocket is your favourite band of the '90s???

Listen ,Jim I've got a MAJOR problem with that choice! We really NEED to talk,...you poor *******. :D :D :D ;)



Seriously though,I liked a few of their songs.

Octopulse
05-07-2005, 08:19 AM
from jim....
so if you're gonna challenge him you better think out your argument before just blurting it out.

....

Just don't be afraid to lose an argument, or to take criticism from others here. None of us mean any harm. I have been on some boards where blood is on the keyboards, and xxif is not nasty like people I've seen on other boards. And he will ease-off if you back off a lame argument. But if you really challenge him, he will not back down. You gotta take your lumps if you want to get in this game. But it's no fun to just sit the bench all the time and never play. Get in the game.
exactly, Im glad you said that, people take note


to tell the truth folks

even with all that yelling here up top

there was never any anger here

and I kinda doubt there was much at xxif's end as well

I thought the whole episode was very interesting

I said to myself....

A: either xxif is gonna turn out to be an ******* whos just gonna troll and leave

or

B: he's gonna stay and be a breath of fresh air

Im glad it was B, this place needed some kicking IMO




speaking of shakers..

I wish pipster would post more often, I miss the code

and RockUForLife..

.. I miss RockU, my guess is shes discovered boys, and now were all very boring:o

xxif
05-08-2005, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Octopulse


I said to myself....

A: either xxif is gonna turn out to be an ******* whos just gonna troll and leave

or

B: he's gonna stay and be a breath of fresh air

Im glad it was B, this place needed some kicking IMO





Hey Octo,

I really appreciate you (and Jim) putting forth a note of support for "lovable,little hell-raisers" such as myself. :)

I'm always game for a "kick" to the side of conservatism and complacency,in the name of "constructive criticism",to help convert a narrow,formatted view into a more wide-screen one filled with wonderful new vistas to discover. :D


Sir xxif ;)

preciousstone75
05-09-2005, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by jim
No Hollywood Ending"?

All we are saying, give a piece a chance. These guys did, and a new friendship is born.


now, that's funny!!!!


:D

SilentGeoff
05-11-2005, 09:21 PM
I am happy to have some intellectual discussion going on as well but rarely take part myself....especially when talk is of music. Music for me isn't an intellectual pursuit it's an emotional one. If the music moves me in one way or another it's great...end of story....no historical context....no competition between one artist or another...nothing to think about...all biases aside. I could care less what anyone has to say about my musical tastes. I like what I like...you don't like it that's fine....say what you will.

Thanks for this time...I will go back and play the games here and enjoy myself as always.......as was said at the end of an old radio show I used to have to run in my radio days called "Friday with Frank" and later "Saturday with Sinatra"....Sleep Warm :)

enumerator
06-20-2005, 09:06 PM
The Fixx are appreciated substantially; thanks... ;)

Deep Red
06-27-2005, 06:23 AM
Hey xxif,
I have no problem with your opinionated remarks.But saying that the Icicle Works,Jayhawks,etc. were much better bands is totally ludicrous.

xxif
06-27-2005, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Deep Red
Hey xxif,
I have no problem with your opinionated remarks.But saying that the Icicle Works,Jayhawks,etc. were much better bands is totally ludicrous.


Hey Deep Red,
Well apparently you DO have a "problem" with,at least,those remarks referencing The Icicle Works and The Jayhawks being "far better bands" then The Fixx(and I see you did your homework;you started from the first page). Granted,my saying they were/are "far better" was perhaps a bit overstepping things(I was actually making more of a point that it was unfair that these bands be doomed to obscurity in general),but I would also say that your conversely stating it's "ludicrous" is,likewise,overstepping things just a bit. None of these bands have been particularly "groundbreaking",nor have they reserved a place in Rock's pantheon of legends,although I would contend that The Jayhawks are certainly deserving of "some" accolades for being one of the first official "alt-country" bands to surface in the late '80s/early'90s. But from a comparative perspective we're hardly comparing "apples and oranges" here.

Although,in the case of "sound",The Fixx and The Jayhawks are considerably removed from one another. I prefer The Jayhawks because they have more of an organic sound,and a greater command of melody,and definitely harmony,albeit The Fixx have,admittedly,resorted to a much more "acoustic" sound;certainly in the case of '98s "Elemental"(I still haven't heard "Want That Life",but I'm not salivating for it either),but I felt the songs were incredibly weak melodically and lyrically,save perhaps "Happy Landings"- the one true gem from "Elemental". Both bands have recorded excellent albums in the past. I've already stated categorically that The Fixx's best album is still "Reach The Beach",which is a classic '80s album in every sense of the period it was spawned from,and clearly the most remembered,due in great part to the success of its 3 singles,especially "One Thing Leads To Another";however,it hasn't aged as well,although one could easily argue that that's part of the album's continuing charm for so many;the very fact that it DOES come from an age that has been 2 decades removed from those that came of age during it,and are now very nostalgically missing it. This is a growing phenomenon among current 30/40-somethings who are feeling more and more alienated by the ever changing and expanding "technological world" attempting to "homogenize" culture and individual sensibilities. Memories and nostalgia are on the defensive now more than ever. The remarkable evidence is all over the internet,for example;just look at the endless number of web-sites dedicated to '80s culture,and not just collectively,but specifically...but I digress.

So,yeah,The Fixx have a few fine albums to their credit,no doubt. The Jayhawks do too,but they also recorded one of the best albums in the '90s with their 1995 masterpiece:"Tomorrow The Green Grass",and their previous gem "Hollywood Town Hall"(1992) is regarded as an important album,certainly among "alt-country" fans,and those into indie-music or rock journalists. The Jayhawks' last record:"Rainy Day Music"(2003) was an excellent one as well.

The Icicle Works were a cruelly underrated band who recorded only 5 albums in their lifetime. But they were really good records,especially their self-titled debut in 1984 which spawned the hit(and now "standard"):"Whisper To a Scream(birds fly)". Other neglected gems from that,unfortunately,forgotten opus,are:"In The Cauldron Of Love","Out Of Season","Nirvana",and "Love Is A Wonderful Colour". Their other classic,IMO,is their 1988 album:"Blind",which featured several unknown greats like:"Little Girl Lost","Blind","The Kiss Off","**** Creek",and "Starry Blue-eyed Wonder". When all said and done I guess I'd give the edge to The Fixx in comparison to The Icicle Works,because The Fixx had 4 solid albums to The Icicle Works definite two,and The Fixx were WAY more popular and successful,...contra aesthetics,that is.


p.s.- ...umm,so you DIDN'T have a "problem" with the rest of those bands in that initial list then,eh?...exxxccccellent! ;)

mgroveton
06-27-2005, 03:12 PM
see, I'm proof. I've never entered a forum, until now. I had to respond. Remember, the Fixx were never for the masses. I am going to see them in Dallas on July 10. I'm taking my kids, as well...2 generations of Fixxtures!

xxif
06-27-2005, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by mgroveton
Remember, the Fixx were never for the masses.

NEVER for the masses??? Are you kidding?

The Fixx were absolutely and unquestionably packaged in the '80s to appeal to "the masses",and it worked in spades for at least a few years. They were in all the popular "rock magazines". I should know,I bought them at that time('83-'86),and The Fixx were featured pin-ups everywhere. And MTV and Much Music constantly aired Fixx videos. Their music was all over the radio. They were VERY mass appealed,and people ate it up,again for at least a few years.

The Fixx were able to appeal to the masses so(certainly in North America),because they were part of the 2nd British wave of bands to invade and take over America's air-waves,this time in the early '80s with The Police,Duran Duran,A Flock of Seagulls,Culture Club,The Human League(who were the first to hit no.1 from this second "British wave" with "Don't You Want Me"),Spandau Ballet,Men At Work(from Australia,yes,but still lumped in),etc...

However,nowadays,The Fixx are hardly in style,thus they don't appeal to "the masses" with their recent music. They are now,for the most part,a "nostalgia act". But it's great that they do retain a "cult fan base" that appreciates their new releases as well.

Deep Red
06-27-2005, 03:49 PM
It's amazing that"the Fixx" were as popular as they were.They didn't exactly appeal to the metal crowd .eg-motley crue, or the pop rock sound of someone
like ASIA.They had their own identity,their own distinct sound,that separated them from the wannabe's of the 80's and 90's.I guess that's why i liked them then and still do now.

THX

mgroveton
06-29-2005, 05:18 PM
Please, calm down, xxif...
Yes, the Fixx were exposed to the masses with the help of MTV. And I'm going to clarify, my experiences are geographically not typical North America, but Texas. So, you see, though many in my circle of friends danced to "One Thing Leads to Another", I was 1 of only a handful to actually purchase their music. To me, that's the difference in one who appreciates, and one who has been exposed and experienced a brief appeal (as the masses do).
Additionally, I want to state-this is why I've never entered a forum. I would just enjoy communicating with fellow Fixx fans. I could really get along without all the confrontations. Don't we have enought of that in life?

Jeanne Thelen
06-30-2005, 11:43 AM
Well put, Mgroveton,

I Can not believe this debate IS STIll going on.....


Welcome to the board...:) and please stay...:)

mgroveton
06-30-2005, 01:27 PM
Thanks, Jeanne Thelen. I'll stick around. I may just have to venture out of "sign of fire". I agree, the debate is lengthy, and xxif contradicts himself, you know?

Jeanne Thelen
06-30-2005, 01:57 PM
I hardley ever enter this thread becuase it exhaust me, to no end....

but I have to say I disagree with the "nostalgia act" reference....

The Fixx are better now .. performance and music .....then they ever were in the 80's ...

Any one who has seen them in the last few years ,would agree to this....

I don't remember signing up for any thing that would make me qualified to be a "cult member" but if that is the case...

where do I sign????????:confused:

mgroveton
06-30-2005, 02:38 PM
That's fine with me- I never got to see the Fixx live, as a teenager. Then, I felt I had missed my ONE opportunity when they played Firewater in Dallas. Well, I have another opportunity to see them and I'm going. I would be dissappointed if i couldn't expect nostalgia. I'm glad to know I can look forward to a good show. Thanks!

xxif
07-01-2005, 03:07 PM
*sigh*...there can be no objective discussion here(and I suppose understandably so given the web-site's initial motivation in the first place). I decree an impasse. Subjectivity and objectivity are the "cat and dog in the double-bed of life". Relativity is too implacable.

...better get back to my "anger management" classes. :rolleyes:

mgroveton
07-01-2005, 03:55 PM
When you return from your anger management classes, xxif, we'll get back to objective discussion. It's not the objective discussion that causes grief. It's the abrasive nature with which you approach. Everyone has the freedom to speak with bias!

Jeanne Thelen
07-01-2005, 04:40 PM
way to go, mgroveton....well put, again.....



I can't believe it.... Did I just read that xxif gracefully declared an impass on this subject after a 13 month passionate go around ?????

WOW!!:eek:

xxif
07-01-2005, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by mgroveton
When you return from your anger management classes, xxif, we'll get back to objective discussion. It's not the objective discussion that causes grief. It's the abrasive nature with which you approach. Everyone has the freedom to speak with bias!


Look mgroveton,I really think you're confusing abrasiveness with "assertiveness". Did you see a single "exclamation mark" in my response to your grossly inaccurate claim that "The Fixx were never for the masses"? My capitalizing "NEVER" was merely for emphasis purposes,due to a complete lack of knowledge(that seemed very surprising to me),on your part, regarding The Fixx's past considerable successes in the mainstream. You're being too sensitive and defensive,by exaggerating the "tone" of my response. Hence,my,apparently,subtle allusion to the film "Anger Management"-if you've seen the film,I direct your memory to the scene in the airplane which effectively satirizes the current increase in contemporary "over-sensitivity",particularly,within the American population. The movie was awful,by the way,but I DID like that one scene.

I suspect the motivation behind your aforementioned statement was a way of justifying your continuing devotion for a band that has little relevance today,both commercially and critically,outside of its own insular fan-base(these are the objective facts,I'm afraid), but must "appear" relevant to an obviously biased fan claiming ego-laden superiority despite the facts and any genuine sense of aesthetics.

"It's not the objective discussion that causes grief."- I don't buy that for a second,and your last sentence proves my suspicions with your exclaiming:"Everybody has the freedom to speak with bias!"<<...ladies and gentlemen...we HAVE an exclamation mark!...prior to this one,that is,but qualifies contextually,I think. :D

You accused ME of "contradicting" myself? Mgroveton,...you CANNOT have an "objective discussion" if personal biases intervene. It's a contradiction in terms,my friend,and further proves my point.

It is not my intention to attack you personally with ad hominen arguements and overbearing posturing.

Aside from all that,...hey!...welcome to the board! :)

xxif
07-01-2005, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Jeanne Thelen
way to go, mgroveton....well put, again.....



I can't believe it.... Did I just read that xxif gracefully declared an impass on this subject after a 13 month passionate go around ?????

WOW!!:eek:


Gotcha! ;)

Jeanne Thelen
07-01-2005, 05:46 PM
I knew I must have been asleep and dreaming......zzzzzzzzzzzz:o :o



Somebody wake me when it is over....* sigh*


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz:o :o :o :o

mgroveton
07-01-2005, 06:11 PM
xxif, are you admitting to your overbearing posturing? I'm not going to assume, since you claim mere assertiveness. Secondly, I was refering to your overbearing posture when I mentioned bias, simply, you have a right to be that way. I'm not that sensitive...

xxif
07-01-2005, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Jeanne Thelen
I knew I must have been asleep and dreaming......zzzzzzzzzzzz:o :o



Somebody wake me when it is over....* sigh*


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz:o :o :o :o


Oh,come on now,Jeanne,don't be like that. You know I'm your hero! :D

xxif
07-01-2005, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by mgroveton
xxif, are you admitting to your overbearing posturing? I'm not going to assume, since you claim mere assertiveness. Secondly, I was refering to your overbearing posture when I mentioned bias, simply, you have a right to be that way. I'm not that sensitive...


That made about as much sense as a Bush jr. quip. :rolleyes:

You're claiming that it is "I" who is biased? Where do you get "bias" from my tenably proving your initial claim:"The Fixx were never for the masses" was categorically wrong? And where is this alleged overbearingness(was it in the "Are you kidding?" comment?;if so then you ARE being too sensitive and defensive)?? That is really the only contention I had with you initially,but,contrary to your claims otherwise,you've gotten WAY too defensive. So you're blowing this out of proportion,mgroveton.

mgroveton
07-01-2005, 11:19 PM
It is not my intention to attack you personally with ad hominen arguements and overbearing posturing

I got "overbearing posturing from YOU! Sometimes you use so much verbage, you don't even remember what you've said in the past.

Where's Jeanne?- Are you ok?

mgroveton
07-01-2005, 11:42 PM
First of all,most people(particularly those under the age of 30) don't know they even exist.


None of these could possibly be compared to the bonafide classics by: The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin, The Police, U2, The Clash, Joni Mitchell, Radiohead, Nirvana, Prince, Talking Heads, etc,but that doesn't mean those Fixx albums weren't enjoyable all the same.But socially and artistically speaking, the Fixx never really mattered


don't be surprised by their being unfairly neglected by the majority of music "consumers",let alone those who are more informed and cultivated,in terms of taste.

You have contention with me? We're really on the same page. The Fixx do not appeal to the masses. Read your own statements, xxif-

xxif
07-02-2005, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by mgroveton
I got "overbearing posturing from YOU! Sometimes you use so much verbage, you don't even remember what you've said in the past.

Where's Jeanne?- Are you ok?


Now I think would be an appropriate time to use these words unlike your previous employment of them:...calm down...okay?...just calm down,mgroveton.

Now read this very carefully,alright? I merely mentioned,voluntarily I might add,that I did not want to seem unduly "overbearing" in my assertiveness in that initial response to you(by which I mean the first post stating "The Fixx were never for the masses"),which I firmly believe that I didn't. Because your response to my following post was so defensive I felt compelled to retort in my typical intelligent and articulate way(it's not my fault if you have a limited range of expression). I just wanted to CLARIFY that is all,okay?

And for the love of god,man(woman?)...what the hell is up with this set of questions?-"Where's Jeanne?-Are you ok?".

How incredibly ridiculous is this? I mean,are you for real? Do you actually think Jeanne was traumatized or something?

xxif
07-02-2005, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by mgroveton
You have contention with me? We're really on the same page. The Fixx do not appeal to the masses. Read your own statements, xxif-

Yeah,I've read those past statements of mine you just referenced. How does that contradict what I said in my first post directed to you? And that one where I say "socially and artistically the Fixx never mattered" is easily distinguishable from commercial success. Hence,The Fixx DID appeal to the masses in the '80s,but mostly on a merely "popular level",which firmly proves your initial statement(the ONLY one I had a problem with before you over-reacted)was dead wrong.

mgroveton
07-02-2005, 09:33 AM
#1-"Where's Jeanne?"-that's sarcasm.
#2-In my perspective, for the masses means genre crossed, platinum album sales. Masses is not a specific number-so I can't be proven wrong on my initial statement.
#3-we all know it takes someone like you to keep this "sign of fire" going...:D

xxif
07-02-2005, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by mgroveton
#1-"Where's Jeanne?"-that's sarcasm.
#2-In my perspective, for the masses means genre crossed, platinum album sales. Masses is not a specific number-so I can't be proven wrong on my initial statement.
#3-we all know it takes someone like you to keep this "sign of fire" going...:D


First off,let me just say that I'm relieved to see that you've composed yourself,and even acquired a sense of humor,compliments of your 3rd comment about "someone like [me] to keep this 'sign of fire' going". And I couldn't agree more:it definitely DOES take someone like me to keep the proverbial wheels turning,to keep things interesting ;ask just about any member here and they'll concur wholeheartedly or reluctantly. :D

"Where's Jeanne?- that's sarcasm."- yeah,and I suppose "Are you ok?" was sarcasm too,right? I'm sure she'd appreciate that. :rolleyes:

Platinum album sales,huh? How 'bout "Reach The Beach" selling over a million units to achieve "platinum sales" by reaching #8 on the charts in 1983,and scoring 3 Top 40 hits;two of which cracked the Top 20,and one which went all the way to #4("One Thing Leads To Another",of course). "Masses" and "genre crossed" are basically the same thing,mgroveton;you're just splitting hairs here to save face. Just admit it, alright? You were WRONG. Your "perspective" cannot supersede the "FACTS". ;)

Again,no offense. And thanks for giving me the impetus to "rock" yet again here. :D ;)

mgroveton
07-02-2005, 01:25 PM
In comparison, what would the facts tell us about the masses reached by, say:
The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac...

True, Reach the Beach was platinum, but that's it.

xxif
07-02-2005, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by mgroveton
In comparison, what would the facts tell us about the masses reached by, say:
The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac...

True, Reach the Beach was platinum, but that's it.

Correction,..." you're still being stubborn". ;)

See,now you're comparing "apples and oranges". Of course,The Fixx were "never" as MASSIVE as The Eagles and Fleetwood Mac,but that's not the point,mgroveton. You said,and I quote(yet again!) that "The Fixx were [NEVER] for the masses". The context here is unmistakable. Why can't you see that?

"...but that's it"(?). But that's everything I needed to prove your initial statement was incorrect. "Reach The Beach" went platinum,and for an albeit,definitely shorter time then The Eagles and Fleetwood Mac,The Fixx were indeed firmly ensconced in the mass consciousness. Case closed...give it up. :cool:

mgroveton
07-02-2005, 02:05 PM
You once referred to the masses and the ignorant majority, particularly. Were the ignorant majority into the Fixx? I don't think so. Anyway, Maybe I should have stated, As a whole, the Fixx were never for the masses. I'm bending but not breaking.

xxif
07-02-2005, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by mgroveton
You once referred to the masses and the ignorant majority, particularly. Were the ignorant majority into the Fixx? I don't think so. Anyway, Maybe I should have stated, As a whole, the Fixx were never for the masses. I'm bending but not breaking.

Oh,for the love of...you're giving me semantics now?-"...bending but not breaking".(???) mgroveton...you are certifiable! :rolleyes:

How much sense does this comment make?-"Maybe I should have stated,as a whole,the Fixx were never for the masses"? That is a REDUNDANCY,because the "whole" includes their entire career,which I've already painstakingly made clear includes the crucial period of '83-'86 where The Fixx scored several Top 40 hits,attained platinum status with "Reach The Beach",gold status with "Phantoms"(1984,and peaked at #19),and,I think,gold status with "Walkabout"(1986,and peaked at #32). In other words,mgroveton,a considerable cross-section of the music listening mainstream WERE into The Fixx during this time,which AGAIN,effectively refutes your initial claim.

However,NOW,and for a good 15 years or so,The Fixx have hardly appealed to the masses.They are NOT relevant,either commercially or critically. In other words,the conventional masses don't acknowledge their continual existence,and the aficionados'(music critics,journalists,serious audiophiles and discerning listeners with a cultivated acumen) collective attentions are compelled elsewhere,and for good reason.

mgroveton
07-02-2005, 05:26 PM
You're a REDUNDANCY. Getting technical about what I mean by masses, and what you mean by considerable cross-sections is cumbersome. I'm the h... outta' here. You've got way more time on your hands than I've got.

Lone Gunman
07-02-2005, 06:32 PM
I am seeing two different views.

xxif is a nice guy. I read his words. He is very opinionated and passionate about what he believes (you are a "he" I assume too much). xxif is historically not mean spirited but condescending. Proud of his knowledge and a very schooled writer. I admire xxif. I could not put together a paragraph like xxif if I had a week. He does it in minutes. mgroveton is like me a newbie. I don't know if groveton has been reading for a long time but do know that there are so many good people here each with their own flavor and emotion. Do not let a person bother you because of two different views. People who disagree can still be friends. I know because I've been labeled a "social retard" by people. Even my freind (or two) but I see that I am getting their persepective and not just a mean spirited stomp.

don't run off mgroveton. I've read so many message boards that are very much inflammatory more than the fixx board or anything xxif has ever said or insinuated.

I will butt out now.
Sometimes I shouldn't butt in to start.
I don't jump in much.
LG

xxif
07-02-2005, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by mgroveton
You're a REDUNDANCY. Getting technical about what I mean by masses, and what you mean by considerable cross-sections is cumbersome. I'm the h... outta' here. You've got way more time on your hands than I've got.


"You're a REDUNDANCY"??...oh,please...talk about projection as a way to save face and pride. :rolleyes:

I mean,what the f**k DO you mean by masses? In what specific,rigid context are you the hell talkin' about? Pink Floyd-like mass appeal? Coldplay-like mass appeal? Gwen Stefani-like mass appeal? And the aforementioned Eagles and Fleetwood Mac? The kind of mass appeal reserved for artists with the talent to maintain longevity? Listen man,I really think you're giving The Fixx WAY too much credit,if the subtext of your claim:"The Fixx were never for the masses" was MEANT to convey that The Fixx were/are TOO SPECIAL for the masses to appreciate; I mean,give me a f**kin' break,will you?,and snap out of it! There's absolutely NOTHING they have done that even remotely suggests that they are TOO SPECIAL(or original or inaccessible) for the mainstream masses to acknowledge or even the marginalized "indie/alternative/underground/serious music fans" to "tip their collective hats to". Don't make me laugh!

Look,this is basically the "gist" behind your motivation here(now that I've realized it with no help from you,of course,in terms of clarification),which,I might add,is rife with "self-importance and insularity". You WANT TO BELIEVE that a band you particularly like(or love, in all likelihood)have actual relevance outside of their "hard-core following",but they don't,nor will they EVER. This is simply to appease your own ego and justify your(likely poor and limited)taste in music. It's called "over-compensating",and just plain ignorance. You've invested too much of your "ultra-subjectivity" into your prefered music to the detriment of any genuine objectivity and range.

Face it,mgroveton,you're "out of your league" with me here. "Too much time on my hands",eh? How about over 20 years of closely following the overall music scene,et al,and thoroughly covering the first 30 years of the rock era as well,and establishing a tenable aesthetics and impartiality along the way. For me,I don't care who it is,as long as the music is good and vital(right now Radiohead is my favourite band,but if and when they falter quality-wise,I'll drop them like a bad habit;I've already done so with Sting years ago- that's "impartiality") ;and I just don't see/hear that in The Fixx's music of the last 15 years or so and neither should you. Perhaps my candor seems harsh,but it is my right to say so,as well as challenge anyone else's stubborn contrary view that claims "superiority". Man! I just covered this point(again! with Jim and Octo who agreed with me) about a month or two ago. I will reiterate(as I have with other's who've naively challenged me here) that it's your constitutional right to put The Fixx on a pedestal,but they are NOT on any other one outside of your's and those here who also love them,and that's a bloody FACT,and don't try to tell a well-informed aficionado,like myself,any different. :cool:

"I'm the h... outta here"...you'd do yourself a great service by upholding that declaration,at least in regards to this specific thread. But I don't hold any grudges(and I hope you don't as well),so I hope to interact with you again under much more harmonious circumstances in other threads. :)

xxif
07-02-2005, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by Lone Gunman
I am seeing two different views.

xxif is a nice guy. I read his words. He is very opinionated and passionate about what he believes (you are a "he" I assume too much). xxif is historically not mean spirited but condescending. Proud of his knowledge and a very schooled writer. I admire xxif. I could not put together a paragraph like xxif if I had a week. He does it in minutes. mgroveton is like me a newbie. I don't know if groveton has been reading for a long time but do know that there are so many good people here each with their own flavor and emotion. Do not let a person bother you because of two different views. People who disagree can still be friends. I know because I've been labeled a "social retard" by people. Even my freind (or two) but I see that I am getting their persepective and not just a mean spirited stomp.

don't run off mgroveton. I've read so many message boards that are very much inflammatory more than the fixx board or anything xxif has ever said or insinuated.

I will butt out now.
Sometimes I shouldn't butt in to start.
I don't jump in much.
LG

I appreciate those open-minded words Lone Gunman,and welcome you to the board. You're absloutely right that I'm "opinionated and passionate",and yes,I admit,I DO come across a bit condescendingly,but only if I'm confronting a stubborn,belligerent person who simply appears motivated by a biased ego and flagrant inaccuracies.

I hope I didn't scare off mgroveton also.

xxif
07-02-2005, 07:30 PM
Judging by the steady increase of "views" for this(now legendary;I mean,let's be honest,it's deserves it by now!:D )thread,I'd say everybody can't seem to get enough of my entertaining(and informative,of course) retorts/tirades. :p

This thread is "Hall of Fame" material here at this web-site folks! :D ;)

























Jeanne's got my personal vote as president of my "fan club". :D




















mgroveton can be "vice president". :eek: :D

mgroveton
07-03-2005, 02:01 PM
You chatter so much, xxif...you go on and on...you make assumptions that are so far off. If you were into Steve Vai, then you would have recognized my reference -"I'm the h... outta here".
I've hardly a limited taste in music. Baskin-Robbins couldn't hold my "choice few". Oh, and Sting?...he's still relevant. Oftentimes, as I'm sure you know, he changes his lyrics around. So now, it's "I'm a BUSINESSman in New York".
I saw Arturo Sandoval a few months ago. I'll see the Fixx in a few days. If I can rearrange my schedule, I'll check out Fair to Midland this month, as well. But I don't have to justify myself to you. I'm very comfortable with who I am, and where I am in music.;)

xxif
07-03-2005, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by mgroveton
You chatter so much, xxif...you go on and on...you make assumptions that are so far off. If you were into Steve Vai, then you would have recognized my reference -"I'm the h... outta here".
I've hardly a limited taste in music. Baskin-Robbins couldn't hold my "choice few". Oh, and Sting?...he's still relevant. Oftentimes, as I'm sure you know, he changes his lyrics around. So now, it's "I'm a BUSINESSman in New York".
I saw Arturo Sandoval a few months ago. I'll see the Fixx in a few days. If I can rearrange my schedule, I'll check out Fair to Midland this month, as well. But I don't have to justify myself to you. I'm very comfortable with who I am, and where I am in music.;)

You're absolutely right,mgroveton,you "don't have to justify yourself to me". And yes,what can I say,I LOVE to talk! ;)

Sting is still "relevant"?...His work with The Police is still vital and untarnished,and,at least,his first few solo albums were outstanding,but if you can't see the obvious lack of quality on his last few records then I'm not even going to try to change your "unbending " mind. I say respectfully,that we just agree to disagree,and leave it at that.

I'll close with this statement to ponder: Everyone has an inalienable right to an opinion,but not ALL opinions are valid or accurate,because that would render everything relative,and devoid of any qualitative differences,which there most certainly are. There IS such a thing as aesthetic value-judgements that can transcend personally-biased tastes and understandings. I don't engage art/music/culture in terms of my own personal microcosmic experience;I take into account the macrocosm of society as a whole,as well, to establish what should be understood(if one has the requisite "frames-of-reference") as "relevance". Though it's not impossible for me to enjoy something for its own sake. I too,have a number of "guilty pleasures" at my disposal that I can distinguish from more important sources of culture.


p.s.- No,I'm NOT into Steve Vai,but I'm definitely aware of his work;and I would concede that he IS an incredible guitarist,but his style of "virtuoso playing",while technically impressive,has none of the spirit of a true "rock'n'roll" guitar sound. I'll take Kurt Cobain's powerfully emotional riffs(in all it's sublime and deceptive simplicity), and easily more propulsive social relevance over Vai anyday.


cheers

mgroveton
07-03-2005, 03:17 PM
First of all, I am refering to Sting's relevance in the macrocosm of society. Secondly, you missed my whole point in "Businessman in New YorK". I have to spell it out for you-M O N E Y. Marketability.

Now, there YOU go, comparing apples to oranges: Steve Vai to Kurt Cobain. Where does Peter Frampton fit in? (I can't wait for this one...)

xxif
07-03-2005, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by mgroveton
First of all, I am refering to Sting's relevance in the macrocosm of society. Secondly, you missed my whole point in "Businessman in New YorK". I have to spell it out for you-M O N E Y. Marketability.

Now, there YOU go, comparing apples to oranges: Steve Vai to Kurt Cobain. Where does Peter Frampton fit in? (I can't wait for this one...)

I hope you don't suffer from "attention deficit disorder"(it's really going around these days it seems). This is a fairly long post,...so enjoy! :)

Assumptions? What assumptions? If you're going to accuse me of making "assumptions",you better back it up with a much stronger counterpoint argument instead of spewing knee-jerk non sequitors,unlike myself. Your polemics(i.e.-debating skills) are for ****. I'm going to be honest with you here,mgroveton,...I'm well-versed in psychology,sociology,and cultural studies,aside from my encyclopedic knowledge of music. I'm basing my so-called "assumptions" on well-researched and documented societal patterns that can be recognized in people if you know what to look for. You don't agree?...then prove me wrong.(now THIS I gotta see!)

Are you telling me that you equate SOCIAL and ARTISTIC "relevance" with "M O N E Y"?!...with "marketability"?! On that basis, Celine Dion would actually be relevant,Britney Spears would too,and Hilary Duff or Clay Aiken! I mean,are you serious? mgroveton,if this is your definition of "relevance" you haven't a single,solitary clue about what I'm going to try(probably futilely) to explain to you,nor do you seem to understand what the spirit of "rock'n'roll"(though it has changed over the years,yes...)is supposed to stand for in the first place!

Rock'n'roll was(and still IS for at least those with the wherewhithal to reject conformity)a proverbial "f**k you!" to the establishment,to The Jones',to anti-septic culture,to complacency,to predominately-socially controlled inhibitions,to worn-out traditionalism,etc,etc.

So your lame attempt at conjoining a weak case for "relevance" with a "3rd rate witticism",by using a "pun"( :rolleyes: )on Sting's:"Englishman in New York" falls flat on its pathetic face; I didn't feel I HAD to acknowledge it,initially out of pity,but now...here we are! Sting ONCE had relevance and vitality in the music industry,but has since faltered creatively,lyrically("Let Your Soul Be Your Pilot"?,"I'm So Happy I Can't Stop Crying"?,"This Cowboy Song"?,"Brand New Day"?,"Send Your Love"?,for example--all are bland musically, and cheesy and trite lyrically),and hence has no social relevance. He doesn't matter anymore to those who know better;he's a JOKE now. And actually,mgroveton,even Sting's sales/"marketability" have been anything but spectacular(certainly in comparison with his past massive successes) over the course of his last few albums. The only genuine "hit" he's had in the last 10 years has been that Euro-dance,New-Agey piece of ****:"Desert Rose",and IT peaked at only #17.

Oh,and the irony of my referencing the "music industry" is not lost on me,I can assure you. I realize the music industry IS a "business",but there are some artists(Radiohead,for example) that play the industry game without selling out and compromising their integrity. As much as it has caused me exasperation,I know society is mortared by a capitalistic economic system(certainly here in the Western hemiphere). But despite its predominate sway over the conformist, general population(which I've every reason to believe includes you;oh! there I go "assuming" again!),who accept it blindly and passively,there is a considerable number of people who are privy to how things "really" are in contemporary times:culturally,economically,philosophically,poli tically,etc,...but are forced to cooperate with it to a degree,because primary necessities(food,water,shelter,clothing,social interaction,etc)have to be procured. In other words,there is a strong,but "marginalized" cultural/social constituency of people who are living deliberately unconventional lives with cultivated,mostly uncommercial tastes in their cultural consumption,and in their overall philosophies and beliefs.

That may seem too "cut and dry" a summation,but I do realize that it's a lot more complex and labyrithine,and would,at least, take a "book length" post to carefully highlight every possible pertinent nuance and minute detail. I'm simply providing an example of dramatic "difference" as opposed to this ridiculous notion of the "global village or globalization" that our so-called leaders of the G8 group would have us "invest" in collectively. The fact of the matter is that there's infinite examples of "cross-pollination" going on,culturally speaking,which would suggest contradiction and peculiar diversity among respective tastes,for better or worse. In fact,I see it right here at this particular web-site.But despite,for example, that a "white-collar,cubicle-ensconced software programmer" MAY have a copy of The Sex Pistols' classic debut c.d. in his "commodity filled" upper westside duplex apartment,it does not neccessarily mean that he subscribes to the "punk ethic",nor that he exercises any anarchist views or philosophical and political ones,as surface appearances would suggest,and understandably so(this would be an educated "assumption",mgroveton).

Steve Vai vs. Kurt Cobain? If by "apples to oranges" you mean Cobain's monumental success,popularity,influence and significance all dwarfing that of Vai's(easily!) ,then I would agree that "apples"(or vice versa) are indeed squashing their fruit relatives. However,that doesn't make it any less true,despite your preference(I assume,again?) for the "virtuoso".

Peter "f**kin'" Frampton?? Get over here and give me a cyber-hug,you poor *******! :D

You have GOT to be kidding me,mgroveton! Peter Frampton is probably THE reason why mainstream rock went "corporate" in the mid '70s when his insipid,innocuous and declawed excuse for rock'n'roll: "Frampton Comes Alive" album went ballistic on the charts and in music stores. Along with Kiss,Boston,Journey,Yes,Queen,Kansas,ELP,etc,etc ad nauseum,Frampton was in the front-lines of a newly established category of rock called "AOR" burning up the air-waves,and absconding with many unwitting teenagers' money in the process. Thankfully Punk came along,then split into New Wave variations to,at least,for a few refreshing years,challenge the "arena rock" ****(and even overtake it to a degree) and,lest we forget, the scourge that was "disco"(eww!-granted,I DO like some of the Bee Gees stuff despite myself,because of the nostalgia of being an innocent kid at the time).

...ball's in your court,my padewan. :D :cool:

xxif
07-03-2005, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by mgroveton
Secondly, you missed my whole point in "Businessman in New YorK". I have to spell it out for you-M O N E Y. Marketability.



Oh,for ****'s sake!...you were being "sarcastic" weren't you? At least with this point,right?

Whoops!...sorry about that mgroveton. :o :D

What can I say?,a momentary loss of judgement on my part. I'm not infallible. :D


Would you PLEASE use the emoticons for clarification purposes for zealous reactionaries like myself? :D :D :D

I humbly retract those statements directly related to Sting meant as a retort.

...god,.......this is embarrassing.-oye

Go ahead...enjoy it...I deserve it.(talk about irony coming back to bite me on the ***!) :)

mgroveton
07-04-2005, 02:15 AM
I could be considered legally blind, but I do wear corrective contact lenses. So your assumption on that issue is, in part, correct. I'm hardly passive. Well, maybe passive-aggressive.

Now I'm going to make an assumption...You don't have children, do you? Of course, a responsible parent has to semi-conform for obvious reasons.

We both know Sting is laughing all the way to the bank. I trust Sting knows "trite" when he authors it. But he's relevant to some for "Roxanne", to others for "Fragile", and to me for "Mad about You", "When the World is Running Down...", Synchronicity II, "Canary in a Coalmine", "Low Life", "Too Much Information".

Actually, my PREFERENCE in guitarists would be Stevie Ray Vaughan, Bugs Henderson, Andy Timmons, Joe Walsh-Funk 49, Eric Clapton-Badge.

I've had Yes-90125 on every format. CSN&Y are vital. Steely Dan tunes are on "loop" in my brain with the exception of their last two efforts.
But, the Eighties were the most magical time for me musically-the P. Furs, the Cars, Peter Gabriel, Romeo Void, the Alarm, Aztec Camera, REM, INXS, Adam Ant, Men at Work, Howard Jones, Depeche Mode, the Cure, the Clash, the Police, the Fixx, the B52's. Speaking of the B52's, I have a cute story... Through the last 25 years, I've kept up with a few of my 80's friends. One of them once took a yacht from Houston over to Florida for winter storage. When he arrived, he wrote me a letter -the return address was slip B-52.

I don't wish to get into politics. If anything, I'd be close to becoming one of those conspiracy theorists. We're all still sleeping...

My simplified philosophical thoughts: it's all about relationships!
Oh, my...I've used another exclamation mark, and not one single emoticon.

xxif
07-04-2005, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by mgroveton
I could be considered legally blind, but I do wear corrective contact lenses. So your assumption on that issue is, in part, correct. I'm hardly passive. Well, maybe passive-aggressive.




I'm sure you knew what I meant "figuratively" speaking about being "blind" to the world's actual procedural conduct,particularly among the so-called "powers that be" perpetuating exploitation,monopolies,hegemony,propaganda(look at advertising now),etc,etc. So I'll cut you some slack and "assume" that you're not as "blind" as I impetuously thought initially. I'm impressed and amazed that you would admit to being "passive-aggressive",...unless you're being dead-pan frivolous again,like you were about Sting!...you silly-billy! :D





Now I'm going to make an assumption...You don't have children, do you? Of course, a responsible parent has to semi-conform for obvious reasons.




No,I don't have children...and you're absolutely right about having to "semi-conform" out of parental responsibility;I've seen it in my own social circle. I suppose I DO have the luxury of assuming an apparent(pardon the pun :D ) "revolutionary disposition",and the TIME spent researching and cultivating my arguements. However,I HAVE come close to being a father before. I successfully dodged marriage twice! I just don't think I'm the type for it. And besides,I'm too jaded and pessimistic to allow my conscience to party to "parenthood". That's NOT to say that I don't LOVE children,I most certainly do(I'm a proud uncle). That love and empathy for children that I harbor is actually a big reason why I do what I do- I'm a writer of poetry,essays,and eventually novels...all of which address the humanities and existence itself. Who knows,perhaps a few years down the road my attitude towards marriage and parenting will change,but in the meantime...






We both know Sting is laughing all the way to the bank. I trust Sting knows "trite" when he authors it. But he's relevant to some for "Roxanne", to others for "Fragile", and to me for "Mad about You", "When the World is Running Down...", Synchronicity II, "Canary in a Coalmine", "Low Life", "Too Much Information".




Okay,I think I see where the "mix up" happened. Don't get ME wrong,mgroveton,Sting is one of my biggest musical heroes. The Police are still "gods" to me! They are the epitome of legendary status and relevance. All the songs you just listed are classics(some more than others,but still...),every single one of them. "Synchronicity" is arguably my all-time favourite album,although it may be tied with The Beatles' "Revolver" and The Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds",but still. And Sting's first 3 albums are marvelous,especially "The Dream of The Blue Turtles"(another one of my all-time favourites). Right up to "Ten Summoner's Tales",Sting was "still relevant";and by RELEVANT I mean the substantial connotation/context of that ,evidently,misconstruable term. Artistically,he still "mattered";his reviews were great and serious musical aficionados still acknowledged him. But since then,Sting has released a string of awful,uninspiring albums resulting in his being banished from the continuous currency of relevance. But that's NOT to say his past body of work,prior to his first official musical crime:"Mercury Falling"(1995),is NO LONGER RELEVANT...IT MOST CERTAINLY IS. So yes,I suppose he is somewhat "laughing all the way to the bank" now,by still managing to eclipse the million mark in sales,but that doesn't change the fact that he's irrelevant,at present.





Actually, my PREFERENCE in guitarists would be Stevie Ray Vaughan, Bugs Henderson, Andy Timmons, Joe Walsh-Funk 49, Eric Clapton-Badge.



These guys are all amazing guitarists,especially Clapton and Vaughan,but I'm hardly saying anything you and the rest of the world don't already know. I'm not,particularly,a fan of "Blues",although I certainly appreciate it to a degree,and acknowledge its irrefutable importance. I suppose that I prefer a more "rock riffed" and "melodic" and "experimental" guitar sound from the likes of:Keith Richards,Pete Townsend,George Harrison,Andy Summers,Kurt Cobain,Johnny Marr,Joe Strummer and Mick Jones,Paul Weller,Jonny Greenwood and Ed O'Brien(from Radiohead),Kevin Shields(from My Bloody Valentine),etc.





I've had Yes-90125 on every format. CSN&Y are vital. Steely Dan tunes are on "loop" in my brain with the exception of their last two efforts.
But, the Eighties were the most magical time for me musically-the P. Furs, the Cars, Peter Gabriel, Romeo Void, the Alarm, Aztec Camera, REM, INXS, Adam Ant, Men at Work, Howard Jones, Depeche Mode, the Cure, the Clash, the Police, the Fixx, the B52's. Speaking of the B52's, I have a cute story... Through the last 25 years, I've kept up with a few of my 80's friends. One of them once took a yacht from Houston over to Florida for winter storage. When he arrived, he wrote me a letter -the return address was slip B-52.




I'm hardly a "progressive rock" fan either,but I definitely like Yes' more melodic rock displayed on "90125". It's a fine album;classic?...no...but really good. CSN&Y ARE vital...I totally agree. And as for Steely Dan? I'm happy to say that we are in complete and utter harmony,mgroveton! Steely Dan are quite simply one of the greatest acts to have ever recorded in the '70s. EVERYTHING they have done(with the exception of their last two inconsistent efforts...again,I absolutely agree)is a "classic"! Their wonderfully original tunes have been "on loop" in my brain,as well, for many years now,and I never tire of them. I'm sensing that we have a lot more in common now. MOST OF THOSE FANTASIC BANDS from the '80s that you just mentioned are among my favourites,especially the aforementioned Police,The Clash,The Cure,Depeche Mode,R.E.M.,Men At Work and The Fixx(mostly for nostalgic reasons now,but they're both still great to hear),Psychedelic Furs(I just recently saw the video for "The Ghost in You" for the first time since 1984!-sweet),and I'm VERY impressed that you mentioned Aztec Camera! They were very unknown over here in North America,save perhaps a couple obscure singles played on radio and MTV once in a while:"Oblivious","I Need Everything","Deep and Wide and Tall". I love those guys! I assume we BOTH came of age in the '80s;and yeah,**** the naysayers,...it WAS a "magical" time! The B-52's were great too,and that WAS a cute story,thanks for sharing. :)






I don't wish to get into politics. If anything, I'd be close to becoming one of those conspiracy theorists. We're all still sleeping...




Christ! I think I AM one of those "conspiracy theorists",but I'm trying to filter out all the nonsense as much as I can to get to the root of what makes the world what it is: past,present and future. I'm currently very concerned about the lines between "reality" and "virtuality" disappearing. So I've been reading a lot of "postmodern" literature and "critical theory" about science,technology,ideologies,hegemony,advertising ,pop-culture,etc,etc. In all fairness,not ALL of us are "sleeping". :cool:






My simplified philosophical thoughts: it's all about relationships!
Oh, my...I've used another exclamation mark, and not one single emoticon.





I agree with you again,mgroveton,...it IS all about relationships! Relationships with one's parents,siblings,contemporaries/friends,teachers,civic officials,opposite sex,sexual partner[s],leaders,psyche,memories,feelings,thoughts,body,sp atial surroundings,economy/businesses,governments,technology,personal belongings,class demographic,spirituality,foreign neighbors,history,etc,etc. :)

jim
07-04-2005, 04:36 PM
What's going on around here? xxif, you know you're supposed to wait 'til I'm around to get on this thread.

Best band of the 90's - Toad the Wet Sprocket. Bar none. Let's crank this thread up to another level. U2, Rem, the Fixx- Let's get it on. Just yankin' your chain. I will let sleeping dogs lie.

Jim

mgroveton
07-04-2005, 05:22 PM
Nirvana or Dave Mathews?
Pearl Jam or Red Hot Chili Peppers?
Smashing Pumpkins or...............

help, xxif-
I prefer Jane's Addiction, but I'm just a padewan!:p

xxif
07-04-2005, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by jim
What's going on around here? xxif, you know you're supposed to wait 'til I'm around to get on this thread.

Best band of the 90's - Toad the Wet Sprocket. Bar none. Let's crank this thread up to another level. U2, Rem, the Fixx- Let's get it on. Just yankin' your chain. I will let sleeping dogs lie.

Jim


Oh damn! damn! That's right too!...I tell ya,Jim,...my memory...boy!...I mean really,huh?...how 'bout that?...umm...what were we talking about again?? :D :p


You wanna get it on?...you wanna get it on?!..............




















.............................Turd the **** Sprocket.









LET'S GET IT ON!!!!!!! :D :D :D









Besides,I'm a "cat guy". I say kick those canine free-loading,
flea-bags!! :D ;)

xxif
07-04-2005, 11:48 PM
The best bands of the '90s are Nirvana in the first half of the decade,and Radiohead in the second half.

Sir xxif has decreed it so...(or at least just echoing the consonant opinions of many,many authoritative critics,journalists and aficionados). I happen to be among them.

Spin magazine has just released a new issue featuring the Top 100 Best Albums of the past 20 years:1985-2005.

Guess who was #1?......Radiohead with '97s masterpiece:"OK Computer". Nirvana's "Nevermind" clocked in at #3. :cool:


Jane's Addiction,Red Hot Chili Peppers,Pearl Jam,and the Smashing Pumpkins are all very important and impactful bands from the '90s,but not as much as Nirvana and Radiohead.

Dave Mathews sucks. :D

xxif
07-05-2005, 12:12 AM
Oh yeah,and neither "Walkabout" or "Calm Animals",nor "Ink" or "Elemental",or even "Want That Life" by The Fixx appeared on the Top 100 list. Go figure,huh? ;)


What's that sharp,pointy and uncordial looking object I cyber-see in Jeanne's hand? :D..........just to get back on topic here. :)

Jeanne Thelen
07-05-2005, 10:48 AM
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

zzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZ


HUH???

Did somebody say something???

I was dreaming.....something about a hero.....who gave up the fight for the good of mankind...:)


Looks like I am still dreaming....(yawn)


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Jeanne Thelen
07-05-2005, 10:54 AM
really... xxif .. I would never"Rag" n anybody for standing up for what they beleive in...


you are definatley Passionate and that has to be admired......



but I have to ask ...do you even like this band??????


at all????


Just wondering...???


Now... I am going back to bed.....

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz:)

xxif
07-05-2005, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Jeanne Thelen
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

zzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZ


HUH???

Did somebody say something???

I was dreaming.....something about a hero.....who gave up the fight for the good of mankind...:)


Looks like I am still dreaming....(yawn)


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o


Can't help "semi-sleepwalking" right back into this bodacious thread,eh?......that's my girl!

Jeanne Thelen
07-05-2005, 11:27 AM
AWWWW... that is so sweet xxif ;) !!!

Big Cyber hugs to ya all....."OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"


Can we still be friends, now?????

:)


Before I go back to bed??????



ZZZzzzzzz:o :o :o :o :o

xxif
07-05-2005, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Jeanne Thelen



but I have to ask ...do you even like this band??????


at all????


Just wondering...???





Do I like The Fixx?...at all??

Of course I do, Jeanne! Why do you think I came to this web-site in the first place? In the '80s The Fixx were ABSOLUTELY one of my favourite bands! "Reach The Beach" was one of the first full-length albums I ever bought with my OWN money. And I still very much consider it an important document from my youth. But at the time "Calm Animals" came out in '88,my musical tastes had expanded considerably and evolved. Naturally,I picked up "Calm Animals" with much the same excitement as the previous releases,but THIS TIME it just didn't do it for me. I certainly didn't "hate" the album by any means,but ultimately I found it disappointing,and lagging behind most of the other albums and bands I was into by then.

By the time "Ink" was released I had gone onto "greener pastures" musically,so I didn't buy it. So for me,Jeanne,The Fixx are a very fond nostalgic relic from my past,and they are representative of an innocence and time that I very much miss. I will ALWAYS have a soft spot for their first 4 albums,particularly. And they certainly have had the occasional song or so that I do enjoy as well..."Happy Landings",for instance. I was able to be exposed to this song because I found a copy of "Elemental" for only 6 bucks,so I thought at the time "what the hell!",I'll get it. With the exception of "Happy Landings",I was REALLY unimpressed by the rest of the album. I suppose "Two Different Views" is "alright",musically speaking,but the lyrics are so trite and cliched,and the rest of the albums lyrics are atrocious. It only confirmed for me that The Fixx were passe.

I know you still love the band,unconditionally(it seems),so I don't mean to upset you unduly,but I'm only being honest about my opinion of their later work(and of their work overall when compared to better,more significant bands). If I ever get the chance to see them live,I probably wouldn't pass it up,Jeanne,and I DO think it's great that they continue to "soldier on" for the benefit of their die-hard fans,and for just the sheer enjoyment of it among themselves. Nobody has the right to deny the fans nor The Fixx that,despite the inevitable outside opinions who may or may not have a clearer perspective of things.

respectfully,xxif :)

Jeanne Thelen
07-05-2005, 01:24 PM
WOW....

Thanks for such a honest and candid and may I say "prompt " reply.....:)

I was really just razzing you.....


Though....

I suppose "Two Different Views" is "alright",musically speaking,but the lyrics are so trite and cliched....


Are you trying to wound my little heart????

:eek:

That is my favorite Fixx song... I LOVE the Happy Landing version because of the simple honesty and realization that these two people in this song have had a complete break down of communication,but all is not completley lost yet.... I wish they would have kept this version...sigh... but that is just me and my little romanitc heart.... :)


and it is Important for us all to remember, as this thread has shown, that there is always two different views of the same thing,baby.......

Jeanne Thelen
07-05-2005, 01:31 PM
P.S.


If you ever do get to see the Fixx,live ....

I am sure you will change your view from a "nolstagia" feeling....to being blown out of the water, out of this world , Outrageosly fabulous.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!;) ;) :D :D



but that is just my opinion....hee hee!! :D

mgroveton
07-05-2005, 02:03 PM
I'm still patiently waiting to see the Fixx!
5 more days...

xxif
07-05-2005, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Jeanne Thelen
WOW....

Thanks for such a honest and candid and may I say "prompt " reply.....:)

I was really just razzing you.....


Though....

I suppose "Two Different Views" is "alright",musically speaking,but the lyrics are so trite and cliched....


Are you trying to wound my little heart????

:eek:

That is my favorite Fixx song... I LOVE the Happy Landing version because of the simple honesty and realization that these two people in this song have had a complete break down of communication,but all is not completley lost yet.... I wish they would have kept this version...sigh... but that is just me and my little romanitc heart.... :)


and it is Important for us all to remember, as this thread has shown, that there is always two different views of the same thing,baby.......


Thanks for the "wow",Jeanne...I have that effect on people from time to time. :D ;)


I wouldn't dream of callously "wounding your little heart"! :(

I know you were just kidding...:D

Quite frankly,Jeanne,...I truly believe the world could immensely benefit from some good 'ole fashioned "romanticism" again. :)



















p.s.- "Two Different Views" is your FAVOURITE Fixx song???...:D ;)

xxif
07-05-2005, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Jeanne Thelen
P.S.


If you ever do get to see the Fixx,live ....

I am sure you will change your view from a "nolstagia" feeling....to being blown out of the water, out of this world , Outrageosly fabulous.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!;) ;) :D :D



but that is just my opinion....hee hee!! :D


Fair enough...:)

xxif
07-05-2005, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by mgroveton
I'm still patiently waiting to see the Fixx!
5 more days...


Can I interest you in a couple tickets to the "Monster Truck Bash'n'Crash Extravaganza" taking place on the same day as The Fixx concert? It'll change your life,man! And I defy you to ever look at a dirty,oily "Chevy" ball-cap on top of an equally oily "mullet",country-plaid rhinestone-buttoned shirt,cheap navy-blue jeans and dusty cowboy boots(with spurs!) the same way again,without due reverence and awe!! :D :D :D

Jeanne Thelen
07-05-2005, 04:38 PM
JUST SAY NO!!!!! Mgroveton... go towards the light....


5 more days... I am so happy for you and counting the days for me... 25 for me...:)



Yes... xxif... Two Different Views is my favorite song... I think the whole world must know this by now....:)

mgroveton
07-05-2005, 10:46 PM
but NO thanks!
Jeanne, I'm always gonna look to you for support.

Jeanne Thelen
07-06-2005, 09:19 AM
You got it, Dude!!! :D :D

jim
07-06-2005, 11:53 AM
sir xxif is merely joking with you, I seem to remember on another thread that he was seriously debating which was the best song of the past 20 years,

Who let the dog's out -or- The Macarena.

I can't remember which one he loves the most, but he does have a soft spot for cheesy pop. His current favorite artist is William Hung. I'm correct on all this, aren't I xxif?

Jim

mgroveton
07-06-2005, 12:21 PM
Everyone needs to go to AOL sessions and check out Sting-Driven to Tears. Now we can all be "homesick" for the Police.

I guess xxif's got tickets for this, as well, huh?

mgroveton
07-06-2005, 12:25 PM
Sorry, I left this out of my last post: aol sessions, live8 video footage, London, Sting, Driven to Tears.

xxif
07-08-2005, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by jim
sir xxif is merely joking with you, I seem to remember on another thread that he was seriously debating which was the best song of the past 20 years,

Who let the dog's out -or- The Macarena.

I can't remember which one he loves the most, but he does have a soft spot for cheesy pop. His current favorite artist is William Hung. I'm correct on all this, aren't I xxif?

Jim


Mgroveton "knew" I was just kidding,Jim,but I appreciate you getting my back,nonetheless. Things are definitely cool now with me and mgroveton. :)

Yeah,...Will's "the man" for sheer,man! Only a matter of time before he bestows his greatest gift upon us fortunate enough to be alive in his lifetime with an awe-inspiring rendition of "My Way". I mean,...Elvis who??...Frank who??...:D ;)

And I understand "well" is his middle name. :p


"Who Let The Dog's Out" or "The Macarena",eh? Listen,I unequivocally adooorrrre those two gems,but for me it's gotta be "Achy Breaky Heart" by "Mullet Man" Cyrus,or Debbie Boone's unforgettable '70s classic "You Light Up My Life",or maybe even "That Boat Song" from the infinitely talented,and devastatingly beautiful Celine Dion. Oh god! I don't know!...so many greats to choose from!...I'm ever so torn!...;)

xxif
07-08-2005, 03:40 AM
Originally posted by mgroveton
Everyone needs to go to AOL sessions and check out Sting-Driven to Tears. Now we can all be "homesick" for the Police.

I guess xxif's got tickets for this, as well, huh?


Actually,mgroveton,I did manage to catch Sting on AOL when he was performing "Driven To Tears" on Live 8,as well as "Message In A Bottle" and "Every Breath You Take". I thought he was pretty good,and was happy he didn't sing anything from his recent fiascos. I do feel the need to echo what another poster had said in reference to Sting seemingly refusing(out of alleged self-centeredness and arrogance) to invite Stewart Copeland and Andy Summers to join him for a brief,but undoubtedly long-awaited Police reunion for this special occasion. Maybe he did and they passed,or perhaps Sting felt it would have been rude to upstage the monumental Pink Floyd reunion? Who knows?...

Tickets?...I'm actually preoccupied with stalking my memory of Olivia Newton-John in her "muse" guise from "Xanadu" under the psuedonym: KHUBLA KHAN! :D ;)

jim
07-08-2005, 09:13 AM
At Christmastime in BestBuy, I saw that William had a Christmas album out. What the h*ll music company in their right mind allows this type of cd to hit the market. And did you ever hear William's re-makes of "Rocket Man" and "Hotel California"? I can't believe that anyone involved actually thought re-making classic tunes was a good idea for him. He should have just stuck to bouncy, dance crap like "she bangs" and "shake your bon bon". I'm just wondering if they thought his covering the Eagles and Elton John would somehow be anything other than a ugly way for people to laugh at the whole absurd project.

And lastly, why wasn't this guy on Hit Me Baby One More Time- He was the perfect candidate.

jim

Lone Gunman
07-14-2005, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by xxif
I appreciate those open-minded words Lone Gunman,and welcome you to the board.

THX xxif

LG

seadave
08-04-2005, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by xxif
Big None of these could possibly be compared to the bonafide classics by: The Police, U2, , Radiohead, Nirvana, Prince, Talking Heads.
[/B]

I think these bands are all overrated as are rap & hip-hop and are played on radio for what they represent and not for good-sounding music.

seadave
08-04-2005, 07:32 AM
[i]Originally posted by xxif


Dave Mathews sucks. :D [/B]


Big time! Like Paul Simon doing that stupid song from 1987 with all its grunts and simple noises.

seadave
08-04-2005, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by jim

There are great songwriters everywhere, Aimee Mann...Jim [/B]

I'm going to see her play on Saturday the 6th.

xxif
08-07-2005, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by seadave
I think these bands are all overrated as are rap & hip-hop and are played on radio for what they represent and not for good-sounding music.

The Police, U2(I'm talking classic pre-"POP" U2), Radiohead, Nirvana, Prince, and Talking Heads..."over-rated"??(I couldn't disagree more)..."for what they represent and not for good-sounding music"??.

Care to expand on that last perplexing sentence,seadave? I'm very intrigued by its implications.

Incidently,...who exactly do you feel "does" make "good-sounding music"? I'm just curious,thanks. :)

Fixxation
08-07-2005, 11:18 PM
Hello All,

I am sorry I think someone said that the Talking Heads were overrated. I don't want to get into an arguement with anyone but they are not overrated.

In fact, I think they are underrated!

Peace,

Fixxation

xxif
08-07-2005, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Fixxation
Hello All,

I am sorry I think someone said that the Talking Heads were overrated. I don't want to get into an arguement with anyone but they are not overrated.

In fact, I think they are underrated!

Peace,

Fixxation

Absolutely,Fixxation! Talking Heads deserve EVERY accolade ever bestowed upon them! Including being inducted into the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame a few years ago. Their albums:"Songs About Buildings and Food"-1978,"Fear of Music"-1979(my personal favourite,and one of my favs of all-time),"Remain in Light"-1980,and "Speaking in Tongues"-1983 are four of the finest,most original and influential albums of their era. Most people who prefer their music linear,and easily digestible,found this amazing "art band" too weird...and it figures. :cool:

Fixxation
08-07-2005, 11:39 PM
Hello All,

I just put together my personal greatest hits of the Talking Heads and it filled up an 80 min CD.

How many bands can do that!

I urge the people in doubt to go buy "Sand In The Vaseline" See how many greats songs on this two CD set.

Fixxation

heimo
08-08-2005, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by Fixxation
Hello All,

I just put together my personal greatest hits of the Talking Heads and it filled up an 80 min CD.

How many bands can do that!

I urge the people in doubt to go buy "Sand In The Vaseline" See how many greats songs on this two CD set.

Fixxation

And don't forgett about the Talking Heads Concert film "Stop making sense". I Always thought that this can be called one of the greatest films of its kind.

xxif
08-08-2005, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Fixxation

I just put together my personal greatest hits of the Talking Heads and it filled up an 80 min CD.

How many bands can do that!



I used to make my own 90 minute compilations on cassette of several of my favourite bands, back in the late '80's: The Police, Split Enz, The Beatles, and The Fixx.

In fact,I just listened to my Fixx compilation(it's about 18 years old now!) a few days ago. It features tracks from "Shuttered Room" to "React",and also has the instrumental dub of "Reach The Beach" from the "One Thing Leads To Another" 12" single.

It was a lot of fun making these tapes. :)

msmith1
08-08-2005, 01:16 PM
Never really mattered?!?!?! What the ----?!?!?!?!

Many choice explicatives later... The Fixx DO matter!

It is hard enough finding clothing that works for those of us around 40, let alone music! The rampant mediocrity that is now allowable and acceptable in all facets (education, music, values, etc.) is maddening enough, but it's coupled with formulating and marketing everything to just 16 and 60 year olds!

What The Fixx has to say is important! It strikes a necessary chord--especially within our 40-ish generation--they say what we think--they still say what we think! They do still matter, always have! Most have chosen not to listen, or are unaware of them!

Maybe so, their appeal is to the smaller demographic of the scientists, the artists, the teachers, the medical professionals, the business professionals, the free-thinkers. Those are the ones first eliminated when things go downhill--we can't have people who can make intelligent thoughtful insights (like The Fixx) around to threaten the spoon-fed, controllable idle masses! Is it any wonder that Cy relocated to France?

I'm tired of being criticized, banished, the lost age group! Yes, what the Tim Leary generation did was important, but I'm not ready to roll over into being a bohemian Grandma just yet! And I'm not going to slip into competing with 16 yr olds to keep up with "Britney." Who like 99% of the current vapid music scene is all about style, but no substance. So you look good, but you have absolutely nothing to say! I don't care that you are so and so and you roll with so and so and you have alot of bling and lots of honeys around--how trite, how boring! If the education system was worth it's salt, we'd have learned youngsters who live in the actual world and could appreciate The Fixx and their continuing valuable observations!

Kim

Jeanne Thelen
08-08-2005, 01:40 PM
KIM...

Right now, despite the looks from co workers... I am standing up and applauding....


Well said!!! :)

The Queen
08-16-2005, 07:33 AM
Beautiful! I am standing up too, but I do that a lot when I listen to Fixx music, it hits a neglected chord in the world I live in.

I love free thinkers, where else do we get our art and culture?

mich112670
08-16-2005, 01:39 PM
APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE!!!!! :)

CousinO
09-08-2005, 01:55 PM
There are way too many variables to count as to why the fixx aren't appreciated by the general masses, but i theorize that very little of it has to do with the quality of the music.


This is not to say that the fixx have always released classic work, just that one cannot dismiss the hundreds of variables that must come together for a band to remain popular (in effect, "appreciated" by the general masses). I can only LIGHTLY touch upon some of the possible factors involved. Some of these factors are more fact than others; some are merely my own speculation and theorizing.



One must consider the nature of broadcasting, which has changed considerably over the years (especially since the communications act of 1996), the nature of the music business, the (sometimes) dubious standards by which high-profile bands are judged and the nature of public perception and how it relates to journalism.

One must also consider the snowballing and self-reinforcing nature of rock "icon-dom" which rock stations and magazines have helped promote endlessly over the years. For example, when was the last time a rolling stones album was seriously judged on the basis of merit and not graded on a curve?

How many people do you know that have wanted to see the Stones just because they're "the stones"? (I've known many). This wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but it's hard for other bands to become legends when PD's throughout the years kept beating the Stones into our heads. It sort of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy after awhile.

For example, I heard the rolling stones song "Hot Stuff" 80,000 times growing up. It's far from their most inspired work, but radio played it alot. By comparison, I almost NEVER heard songs (at least, not here in the US) by great bands like Roxy Music, who are considered legends over in England. Now, perhaps Americans would have rejected a band like Roxy Music, but it's hard to say who would be"icons" and who wouldn't when we weren't really given (much of) a choice in the matter.

This does not mean that the Stones are not a great band. They are. I'm just noting how the "legend" phenomenon tends to reinforce itself, and I'm also noting that many bands had a stranglehold on radio programming through the years, when an extra slot or two could have gone to someone else.

You might respond by saying that the Fixx did get alot of airplay back in the day. However, I would counter that the baby-boomer-classic-rock mentality still pervaded and controlled the whole of radio programming and rock journalism throughout the 80's. While the fixx were spared some barbs because of jaimie's "rock guitar", the fact of the matter is that most "serious" music types weren't ready for what "new wave" bands had to offer. the truth is, the new wave bands were largely accepted or rejected based on how closely the conformed to the standards of old. U2 is a great example. In the 80's at least, they were "anthemic" enough and "earnest" enough and "rocking" enough that they could be embraced by the old school rock fans and new wave fans equally.

Sadly, new wave concepts like blending fashion and visual elements with the musical message, as well as incorporating funk and dance rhythms into the music, or singing abstract lyrics, or performing bizarre synth solos, was NOT something that many american rock fans were ready for in the 80's. Since the fixx DID use some of the new wave trappings to further their careers, they were viewed (i believe) as a disposable synth-pop band who belonged on top 40 radio. This is true in spite of the fact that they were more rocking AND more talented than most new wave bands out there.

I also believe that many pseudo-intellectuals and pseduo-hipsters could NEVER take a band like the fixx seriously because they found most of their early success on top 40 radio in the EIGHTIES. Hence, there is a dubious school of thought that says they could never be "real" or "legit" if they were embraced by the masses in the "80's" which is viewed as a musical wasteland by many. I do not subscribe to that school of thought, (and many other people are coming around as well) but it is sadly true that there is more of a stigma attached to the 80's than other eras in music, like the 60's and 90's. The Fixx are often viewed as guilty by association with an era which musically and socially produced "bad things". The general slagging/dismissing of the EIGHTIES in general, is another factor which contributes to the fixx being slighted. It's totally bogus, but it happens.

I strongly suspect that if a band like the Smiths (who i can pretty much take 'em or leave 'em) had had a string of top 40 hits in the 80's, they would NOT be the respected cult favorites they are today. It's just not cool or bohemian enough to like someone whose main audience PRIMARILY came from top 40 radio. Obviously, I can't prove that, but I think the point is valid. You need to consider the way our society evaluates music and art, and how it is NOT always based on the pure merit of the work.

There are other factors which have been mentioned elsewhere on this message board, and they all may have a certain degree of truth to them. The Fixx taking time off, for example, might have hurt the band. But it is equally diifficult to predict what would have happened if they HAD NOT taken time off. Perhaps they would have gone Supernova with a huge hit, and then completely disbanded afterwards. Perhaps they would have become over-exposed and gone the way of hootie and the blowfish. the point is, what might seem like a bad move at the time could actually turn out to be the wiser/smarter move down the line. We honestly don't know.

****
I tend to believe that the Fixx subscribe to the "slow and steady wins the race" school of thought. I don't think it would be in their best interests to constantly be second-guessing themselves and
trying to figure out how they could be more appreciated. They are artists, and I believe they are artists of integrity. The best they can do is try and be true to themselves and their vision, and express it the best way they know how, AND GET IT OUT THERE FOR PEOPLE TO HEAR. (that does not mean they will never make mistakes either.) They are doing what they love, and the hope is that others will love it too. Their first goal should be expressing themselves, and making good music. If they are to be appreciated, that is for history to decide.

As a side note here, I would like to point out as a musician and songwriter that I have never known any person with a musical background who didn't have at least some degreee of respect for the fixx. take that as you will, because "musical respectability" is not the be-all-end-all measure of a great band. But i did want to point out that that has been my experience.



*****

But to be honest, if you listen to the fixx's songs, and even what cy has said in comments, being the "best" or grading who is the "best" is not what the fixx is about. They are about living and being and breathing and creating. That is the message of the Fixx, and concerns about how is the "best" or "who comes out on top" are secondary to their primary message. after all, cy said it best when he said "you don't have to prove yourself to me". Well, the fixx don't have to prove themselves to me, either. they're there for people to experience and enjoy if they want to.
I happen to enjoy them very much, and i know many others who do too. I hope they NEVER go away. And that's good enough for me.

Jeanne Thelen
09-08-2005, 02:24 PM
But to be honest, if you listen to the fixx's songs, and even what cy has said in comments, being the "best" or grading who is the "best" is not what the fixx is about. They are about living and being and breathing and creating. That is the message of the Fixx, and concerns about how is the "best" or "who comes out on top" are secondary to their primary message.


I could not begin to agree more.....




after all, cy said it best when he said "you don't have to prove yourself to me". Well, the fixx don't have to prove themselves to me, either.

Me niether....


:D :D ;)

they're there for people to experience and enjoy if they want to.

Right On !!!! :D

WHO LOVES YA, BABY!!!!!!!!


WE DO!!!!! :D :p ;) :) :cool:

Bassman
09-08-2005, 03:08 PM
Cousin O raises several good points... and I'm friends w/ him and the man knows his music.. especially the Fixx


My thing w/ the Fixx has always been... (and you'll just have to trust that my likes and influences run the gamut of all genres... like musical A.D.D) that they sort of defy a specific genre in of themselves.... I've never seen them as a one-trick-pony. I've never seen them as a true "80's Band" in terms of Synth Cheese... what sets them apart is that their music is

a. anything BUT basic.. just try emulating Jamie's chords and picking techniques

b. funky as hell one minute, souful and ballad-like another, and then raucous and punk quirk the next... each album has it's own sound, yet the band never goes outside it's signature sound...

c. perfectly paired w/ insightful and thought-provoking lyrics... I rarely listen to a fixx song where i'm not imitating Cy (half of the time w/o realizing it) in the car... there is CAUSE (CAUSE CAUSE) CAUSE to be alarmed... etc.. and I'm always wondering what certain lyrics mean... that's what keeps you guessing.. which is what keeps it interesting.

Great band.

The Queen
09-13-2005, 05:59 AM
Bassman, you said it perfectly, they are a bit hard to define, and too intellectual for your average top 40's dribble.

I love these guys, I hope they never stop.

rockerchic
09-23-2005, 09:51 PM
Radio and media broadcasting over these last 20 years seems to have taken a turn for the worst. I believe they are completely clueless as to what talent is! These pop singing sensations don't play instruments at least as far as I am aware. (I don't listen to too much of the crap on the radio these days - I'm stuck in the 80's) They seem to be so vain about how important their look is over their sound. Each "Pop tart" looks like they are in competition with the next as who can be the hottest in dance and fashion. Where the hell is the real musical talent and all the efforts to go with it? They have some synthesized beatbox crap or some stolen beat or lyrics of our yesteryear and they try to call that music! Do any of these characters know how to write or read music?
As some of these other posts pointed out, the Rock legends that remains in the popular vote - part because that is what the public broadcasting wants us to hear. They should introduce the new and upcoming releases of all rock bands and take a poll like they used to do on "American Bandstand" to see how fans will rate and react to the new soon to be releases or hits. They should introduce the song with a summary about the band and where to follow up if you are to be a fan. If the band has a website then that could be given. More college stations and rock clubs need to air The Fixx and maybe they would catch on. Their lyrics are deep and meaningful. They are a band that will not throw their noses up at the fans. A band that has true respect for each other as a group. I attest to this as I had asked Cy if next tour he would sing something from his solo career and he looked at his band mates and said it is up to them as well to make that decision. He seemed so sincere about not wanting to step on anyone's toes for his own personal gain. The Fixx are so genuine and seem ready to share their world with others if you take the time to listen! Wished I knew about the Street Teaming earlier on as I went to so many outdoor events this year, I would have been more than happy to pass out flyers about their musical career and tour. Hopefully there can be a next time and an education for the clueless!

Delfixxture
10-16-2005, 03:53 AM
CousinO, I think that you make many great points here. My problem is taht I don't think that The Fixx get enough exposure and airplay. Whenever I request a song by The Fixx to be played on the airwaves, it can never be something off of the beaten path. I can only choose between Red Skies, Stand Or Fall, One Thing Leads To Another, and Saved By Zero. This is even when the station has an 80's flashback call in lunch. These DJ's don't even know that the group has released any albums since the 80's. Last year all I heard was about the return of Duran Duran. I like them so that is not a problem, but it was publicized. They released the songs to the DJs. Reach Out For The Sunrise became a hit. Is it better than You Don't Have To Prove Yourself To Me from our favorite band? No, but nobody clued the radio stations in that it even existed.

BTW-Hootie is back CousinO

arlen
10-25-2005, 09:01 AM
aaarrghh

The truth of the matter is that, as a race, people are losing the ability to discern, to distinguish - and to chose something a little off the beaten track. It's all about security of character - or rather, insecurity. When I look at kids today ( God I sound like my father )it saddens me that conformity has become a massive driver; when I was, say like 12 or 13, it was about standing our from the crowd, and I was happy with the fact that no-one else liked the music I did. But now more than ever, we all ( apparently ) want to be told what we like & what we should be aspiring to. Sadly, it's true.

But not surprising when you think about it - this is all about market forces, commercialism - and kids are now a multi-billion dollar industry - which wasn't the case 20 yrs ago. The music ( and entertainment industry in general )has epitomised this ethic - music became fashion became commodity - and bands like The Fixx have largely been squeezed out of existence in an industry that just wants more of the same to force upon each generation; maybe I'm just bitter, but years of struggling in the industry and witnessing truly innovative bands being dropped by record companies in favour of mindless nonsense...whoa! time for the haloperidol.....

Anyway, I agree with Jeanne. The Fixx have always been about creation, innovation, refinement.

arlen.:wave:

seadave
10-25-2005, 03:27 PM
What's offensive to me is how these people think they are being so unique with their hip hop or metal tastes and styles and they are just following the leader(AKA the lead of Hollywood/record companies) and present themselves as completely run-of-the-mill. Same hip hop cloths and nasty attitute since the late 1980s or the same purple hair since 1970s England. It's old and boring and in 10 years so will the people dressing like that be too.


Another thing that is old and boring is the same nasty trash being paraded around as music since about the early 1990s when all the good bands lost their touch or else couldn't get record company support or radio airplay.If you ask me, these people being paraded around as pretty or handsome like Madonna or George Michael are ugly as sin and so are all the rest of these "hot" cretins who are supposedly singers and musicians who followed in the footsteps of Madonna or George Michael who don't have talent but really on their looks for attention while being ugly as sin.



I think the Fixx got shafted because of a lack of radio airplay. If more people heard them on the radio and knew who they were they would have been way more significant. I'm not Irish as a matter of fact I'm Polish, but I wouldn't buy a record because someone is Polish like people who are Irish bought U2 records or djs played their music simply because of their nationality. To me this is both politically correctness and being part of a good ole boy network.


The Fixx really had/has a unique, cool sound. Now on the the Music Choice alternative station they are playing bands trying to mimic U2 and they suck.

preciousstone75
10-26-2005, 12:13 PM
I noticed that they don't play the Fixx as much as they did two years ago, or even the past year for that matter! I'm like "WTF?!", because now they don't play them at all on the RetroActive channel OR the Rock channel!

Wassup wit' dat?!

CousinO
10-27-2005, 09:18 AM
Yeah, it totally sucks. Alot of these decisions are made almost arbitrarily by "consultants" and "program directors" and other idiots who think people need to hear more ashlee simpson. (or whatever)


The other thing that stinks is that sell-outs like INXS ***** themselves on national tv and get increased airplay and sales for their efforts. I am SO GRATEFUL the fixx have integrity and don't embarass themselves as a nostalgia act, or letting themselves be exploited on shows like "hit me baby one more time." I AM SO GRATEFUL for that. Like I've said before, slow and steady wins the race. I just hope that's true!!!!

I think more than anything what the band needs at this point, is for someone really respected to come out and say that the fixx were a big influence on them. It could happen; i have never known any musical types who didn't have at least SOME degree of respect for the fixx. I wish that people would just wake up on their own and not listen to what snobby fixx-haters have to say, but barring that, it would be really helpful if one of the popular bands of today came out and supported the fixx. It COULD happen... as Cy says, "Realize, that tomorrow, things may be fine..."

Another equally great thing would be if someone put one of their songs (new or old) in a movie or tv show. That would also go along way toward promoting the band to new audiences.

It'll happen eventually, we just need to be patient!