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Steve Pariseau
09-05-2006, 01:31 AM
WHAT THE **** !!??

Anyone see Loose Change yet?

Go to google
click on "video"
type in Loose Change.
Watch the one that is 1hr 22min

TRULY - the crime of the century has occured and in the name of MONEY and POWER at the cost of thousands of lives.

Would love to hear the thoughts of those of you who have watched it.

STUART
09-05-2006, 07:24 AM
Steve, you referring to the 9/11 Loose Change?
Have the 2 DVDs that I bought from eBay, and they make amazing viewing, especially the lack of wreckage and inconsistent damage to the White House that would be caused by a 757..... been watching and watching these for the last 4 months and haven't posted on the subject because the claims are so fantastic that people would never believe a nation would sacrifice it's own to protect profit.
Anyway, mail me or send a PM and if you don't have the extra footage I have, then I'll send it out to you.

Steve Pariseau
09-05-2006, 08:50 PM
Cyn - wow, yeah, my post was harsh. I've edited it so it's not so rigid. Sorry :(

Stuart - Is that in NTSC? I'm interested in seeing the additional footage.

The presentation is credibly convincing. It makes one (me anyway) want further answers and explanations.

I thought it was all BS until I gave it the time of day.

So, anyone who's watched it that can spead some light on my original question of "WTF?" please chime in.

Beached Male
09-05-2006, 10:07 PM
Steve,
Up front, I haven't had time to watch it yet, but I have done the quick Wiki look at it- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_%28video%29

That link is worth reviewing before or after watching it. There are some inaccuracies already clearly discounted, and it points out the major arguments of the movie. Based on some of the inaccuracies noted, the remainder of the story becomes more questionable. I would be interested in seeing their 3rd response on this (since it is up to a 2nd edition now, I believe).

Sadly, even if a smidgeon of this is truth, these guys aren't the thorough research analysts to be tackling the job. Could there have been some insurance fraud? Possible. Did Flight 93 land in Cleveland? Really out there if it did, because wouldn't a true gov't conspiracy send it to the Nevada desert or something? I'm a bit cynical, but hey, I think the movie "Capricorn One" makes for a better story, and O.J. doesn't survive in that one!
BM

Steve Pariseau
09-05-2006, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by Beached Male
...I'm a bit cynical, but hey, I think the movie "Capricorn One" makes for a better story, and O.J. doesn't survive in that one!
BM

First I'd like to say, it's not a story. The proposal is that of a series of valid questions that haven't been answered.

Second, I was really hoping for responses from people who have watched it. Please post again after you've watched it.

Again, people who have watched it, please fling me your thoughts.

Steve Pariseau
09-05-2006, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by STUART
...haven't posted on the subject because the claims are so fantastic that people would never believe a nation would sacrifice it's own to protect profit.

Youre are right Stuart.

Ignorance is bliss.

a quote from Happy Landings...

"...are we tiring of pleasures designed to keep our heads in the sand?"

STUART
09-06-2006, 01:23 AM
Steve, they're in Pal format but most DVD players handle both formats anyway, yes, there are people working on this that have more than a reputation to lose, people who really DO KNOW what they're talking about, the way the towers fell being typical of explosions inside for controlled demolition, the way the debris field spread, why did other towers, not attacked, still crumble, why were the towers the only sky scrapers to in history to fall this way, why was there melted steel at ground zero, steel melts at a far higher temperature than can be produced by aviation fuel alone and would need the core temperature of explosives at detonation to re-produce the same results.

Yes Steve, too many questions, too few answers, the answers so far are less than convincing, I'll sort you out copies of both DVDs and send them on to you, if you already have them, I'm sure someone else on the boards would make use of them.

preciousstone75
09-06-2006, 07:56 AM
Have only glimpsed the Wiki version, but I am big on theories (and am suspicious by nature). All I can say is that it doesn't surprise me one bit! Remember how we got out of the Great Depression? By entering World War 2!


question!

SilentGeoff
09-06-2006, 10:34 AM
The "Loose Change" video has its merits.

It asks tough questions, many of which it doesn't answer. It raises possiblities of conspiracies at the highest level. It forces one to think about things in a different way.

But, it does not prove a single thing beyond a doubt. It's kind of a what if scenario...I guess my biggest problem with it is all the questions and very little answers.

This film throws up ridiculous questions, tries to support them with illegible documents scrolling across the screen and unverifiable "facts" from the director/producer.

Where are the experts?

Show me the "scientific proof" that the voice claims so often but never provides, it just does not hold any credibility in the way it is presented.

It makes for great drama, but lousy fact...and I really doubt the current administration is that smart. I do, however, believe that this adminstration could be that deceptive.

Don't you think if they were willing to go to the lengths discussed in this film, they would have been able to sneak at least one WMD into Baghdad?

I believe, until proof is supplied, that this is a case best explained by Occam's Razor...one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.

Just my opinion....I'm usually wrong....

Beached Male
09-06-2006, 02:44 PM
I have to ditto many of SilentGeoff's comments.
I have watched the whole thing, but I purposely watched it objectively, not subjectively. I think that's the caution with these stories (yes, Steve, I still call it a story). If you subjectively start up this movie, and already think there's a problem, a conspiracy that hasn't yet matured in your own brain, then all the little snippets will seem like truth as they pop up. Each small story presented is not proven, nor is there expertise to back them up. This conspiracy theory won't have any merit until a pro tackles it, even if there is a shred of truth in it.

While I am not a fan of big business involvement with the government nor of the military, I still don't find truth in the claim that all of this is purposely to start a war and provide money for the administration.

Here is a mini-scenario to consider- let's say Flight 93 really lands in Cleveland, because the passengers really do take back control of the plane, and the terrorists on board were subdued and kept for questioning. Would it be a problem if the plane is publically proclaimed as "crashed", in order to gain information from these guys on the terrorist network? If you are able to fake a terrorist's death, they are more likely to spill their guts. What if they helped provide key information that enables better U.S. defense posture against terrorism from that point on? Even though I don't believe this is true, perhaps this one mini-scenario is worth thinking about- the fact that sometimes secrecy may save lives, with the cost being sorrow for those who are external to the family of the event. I would say that this would not stay a secret for long, however, unless there's a bunch of money to keep mouths shut. In addition, I was an acquaintance of a passenger on Flight 93, and that person never came back home. That's why it's a bit more personal with me, but even though I would really like to believe that this person is still alive, it's just a far-off theory all the same.

Anyway, I digress...more thoughts later after I back off now and let others chime in.
BM

Steve Pariseau
09-06-2006, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Beached Male
...let's say Flight 93 really lands in Cleveland, because the passengers really do take back control of the plane, and the terrorists on board were subdued and kept for questioning. BM

Thanks for taking the time to see it BM. I watched it objectively as well. I see many Michael Moore type "facts" presented (meaning documents and testimonies are flashed before us with no real proof the source is credible) during the presentation. The truth still remains buried as to what really happened though. Many of the questions asked can not be answered by "experts" either (or at least they all won't agree). That is what is so intriguing about the whole thing.

Now, about your mini-scenario that I quoted above. I'd like to offer up another mini-scenario just as unlikely. The presentation implies that there were no terrorists to start with. The passengers didn't have to take back control of the plane. It simply landed in Cleveland and was evacuated into the "Nasa" holding area. And as far as your acquantance that never came back goes, perhaps he's basking somewhere with a portion of the $183 BILLION that was alledgedly under the towers that hasn't been recovered. I'd take a billion dollars to move somewhere exotic, cut ties with everyone I know, and shut the hell up. Those who wouldn't could have been disposed of.

Just a mini-scenario though.

So many unanswered questions.

STUART
Yes please! Do send the DVDs. I'll figure out some way to view them. Do you have my addy from before?

The molten steel a few weeks later is one of the more complicated anomolies. If jet fuel only burns at 1180 degrees (Fahrenheit) and it takes over 2000 degrees to melt the steel certified by Underwriters Laboratories that was used to build the towers, then how did molten steel end up below the site far after the event?

I don't get it.

Geoff
I didn't get the impression that the film was attempting to answer any questions. And you are right, they don't answer any questions. The DO, however, ask a great deal of questions and present enough information for the viewer to be asking even more.

The current administration IS that smart, in my opinion. Bush, Cheney, Silverstein, and anyone else with Haliburton or heavy oil interests stands to gain billions of dollars through the repercussions of such an event (including war on Afghanistan and Iraq). $$Billions$$

STUART
09-07-2006, 01:45 AM
hi Steve, send byour addy in a PM as I changed computer in the last year and scrubbed the C drive before my children took it over, probably didn't save the address.
You should be able to watch the DVD's with no problem, most DVD players handle all formats, some have auto select and some manual.
There's no region coding on these but I have codes to get around region codes on 99% of DVD players, you enter through the handset and make the sysytem Region Free with Macro turned off.
There's other bits as well though that I have access to that shows that the Bush family actually have links with the Saudi's especially the B** L***n family who financed one of the Bush's original foray into the oil industry, not something that has been broadcast from many rooftops, but I'll photocopy the pages I have and you can see those as well.

Octopulse
09-07-2006, 06:19 AM
God this movies got more holes than a truckload of swiss cheese, i really dont know where to start

heres just one point of disinformation...

- Loose Change states the plane that hit empire state building in 1945 was a B-52, wrong, B-52's didnt fly until the 50's. It was a B-25 that hit the empire state building, a much smaller plane than what hit the towers on 9-11. The planes that hit the towers on 9-11 were much heavier, were flying much faster, and were carrying far more fuel than the amount of fuel than a B-25. I understand the authors have revised, or about to revise this statement in another edition, but really, these guys didnt do thier homework here, and probably didnt care to.

heres my opinion - Whoever came up with the idea of offering free DVD's of this to the families of the victims of 9-11 should be severely punched right in the nut-sack

Robert M
01-26-2007, 06:23 PM
Just noticed this thread in the passing...

I'm looking forward to the final cut of "Loose Change" because I'm not that convinced by the current version.

If you're looking for something that will shock and surprise you, though, I can definitely recommend reading "House of Bush: House of Saud" by Craig Unger. Very insightful, thoroughly researched and pretty devastating, I'd say...