PDA

View Full Version : Another reason the RR Hall of Fame is a joke



Angiekay
03-15-2007, 09:42 AM
I always knew Wenner was a worm, but this is BS.


Rolling Stone publisher Jann Wenner made an executive decision to not allow the Dave Clark Five (DC5) to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame -- despite the fact that they earned the necessary votes to get in, according to insider reports.

Foxnews.com reported that Wenner, a co-founder of the Rock Hall and chairman of the board of its foundation, wanted to make the induction ceremony a more commercial TV event by allowing rap pioneers Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five to be inducted, despite the DC5 actually earning six more votes than the legendary rappers. A source close to the Rock Hall said that, "Jann went back to a previous ballot instead of taking the final vote as the last word. He used a technicality about the day votes were due in... He felt we couldn't go another year without a rap act."

Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five were inducted into the Rock Hall Monday (March 12th), alongside R.E.M., Van Halen, Patti Smith, and the Ronettes. Wenner, who reportedly appointed himself the chairman of the Rock Hall after the recent death of Rock Hall co-founder Ahmet Ertegun, spiced the ceremony up with a prolonged salute to Ertegun featuring a tribute by Aretha Franklin. The source added that, "We begged Jann to allow all six acts to be inducted. But he insisted that he couldn't because there wouldn't be enough time."

Representatives for Wenner said that they have read the story and decline to comment.

The source went on to add that Wenner's financial management on behalf of the board has also been called into question, as well as his reshaping of the Rock Hall board, which is now mainly made up of past and present Rolling Stone writers. There are currently only three musicians on the Board's voting committee -- Paul Shaffer, Steven Van Zandt and Robbie Robertson.

preciousstone75
03-15-2007, 11:23 AM
I understand the foulness of the oversight (that's putting it mildly!), but it's about time they put some hip hop in there as well. They should have allowed them as well as DC5.

tenohtwo
03-15-2007, 12:13 PM
RUSH has been ignored, too, but the 'ignore list' is a long one.

1002

Angiekay
03-15-2007, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by preciousstone75
I understand the foulness of the oversight (that's putting it mildly!), but it's about time they put some hip hop in there as well. They should have allowed them as well as DC5.

This is where I disagree. What part of hip hop is ROCK AND ROLL? Not even in the genre ballpark.

dee
03-15-2007, 06:14 PM
i agree with you angiekay hip hop i not rock and should not be included or rap for that matter it is b.s. of course!!!! dee:wave: :mad:

preciousstone75
03-16-2007, 05:46 AM
the Ronettes weren't a rock act either. A girl group, but definitely not rock.

E, W, & F is not a rock group either. Rock and roll is just a term for music. How else can you explain the addition of a lot of artists recently? They just need to rename it the music hall of fame.

Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Smokey Robinson, B. B. King, Otis Redding, The Temptations, Stevie Wonder, John Lee Hooker, Wilson Pickett, Jackie Wilson, The Four Tops, The Jackson 5, Michael Jackson, Prince, Gladys Knight and the Pips, and Marvin Gaye aren't rock acts. That's classic Motown, soul and rhythm and blues, music everyone has embraced over the years.

And there's a lot of hip hop acts who began their careers by sampling Billy Squier's "big beat". If that isn't a rock song, then what is? And we don't even want to discuss Tone Loc's use of Van Halen's "Jamie's Crying", do we? Then the most heinous sample of all- Puffy's use of "Roxanne" by the Police! Even more recently, some clown has sampled Spandau Ballet's "True"!

Two words- James Brown. Not a rock act either, was he?

preciousstone75
03-16-2007, 07:26 AM
They induct performers and influences. There are even people in there who aren't musicians, but promoters and producers as well as those who made the instruments all artists use, such as Leo Fender. Mahalia Jackson is in there, and we cetainly know she wasn't a "rock" artist. She was gospel. So I say they should put hip hop in; it's proved its relevance. Groups like Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit as well as others cite MCs from the beginning as influences.

So how would you count those who were talent scouts? John Hammond discovered Count Basie and Benny Goodman. Mo Ostin signed Jimi Hendrix, Prince, and Van Halen. Should they not be counted as well?

I may not like the R&RHof, but let's give due where there is. Not everyone likes hip hop; I don't like it as much these days myself. But if there are those from that category who are put in, we shouldn't knock it. We want others whom we love to be placed as well, so these artists deserve a chance too.



(not yelling! just stating what I found out myself. . . and also thanks to Wikipedia!):D

musegirl
03-16-2007, 08:35 AM
The Internet is rife with similar discussions about the R&RHoF these days. I guess we all have our own definitions of what rock and roll is and interpret the purpose and intent of the HoF differently. I am of the mind that there is an inherent irony to any sort of ďestablishmentĒ associated with rock music.

We can all think of acts we believe deserve to be publicly celebrated as well those we think donít. Personally, I donít know why the Pretenders and the Loviní Spoonful are in there before Alice Cooper, Genesis, or Rush. Can one really say that the former have been more influential than the latter? I certainly donít think so, but thatís just my opinion. In the end, itís all pretty arbitrary and the process of choosing is likely to be skewed somehow.

I think itís good that there are debates about these things. Itís a reflection of how music not only connects with us all on a personal, sometimes visceral level, but also how it compels us to think and question the status quo.

Angiekay
03-16-2007, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by preciousstone75
the Ronettes weren't a rock act either. A girl group, but definitely not rock.

E, W, & F is not a rock group either. Rock and roll is just a term for music. How else can you explain the addition of a lot of artists recently? They just need to rename it the music hall of fame.

Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Smokey Robinson, B. B. King, Otis Redding, The Temptations, Stevie Wonder, John Lee Hooker, Wilson Pickett, Jackie Wilson, The Four Tops, The Jackson 5, Michael Jackson, Prince, Gladys Knight and the Pips, and Marvin Gaye aren't rock acts. That's classic Motown, soul and rhythm and blues, music everyone has embraced over the years.

And there's a lot of hip hop acts who began their careers by sampling Billy Squier's "big beat". If that isn't a rock song, then what is? And we don't even want to discuss Tone Loc's use of Van Halen's "Jamie's Crying", do we? Then the most heinous sample of all- Puffy's use of "Roxanne" by the Police! Even more recently, some clown has sampled Spandau Ballet's "True"!

Two words- James Brown. Not a rock act either, was he?


Of course he was. There is a very fine line of rock mixing with soul and with hip hop and rap. I don't think those two genres have any musical value at all...sorry, my opinion. How hard is it to mix or sample SOMEONE ELSE'S song or sing to a music track vs being an original talented single songwriter? No comparison. That's not what it takes to get into a hall honoring music.

Octopulse
03-16-2007, 10:07 AM
thank you.... thank you.... yes.. thank you for coming tonight to the first annual Octopulse Rap Music Hall of Fame Awards Ceremony

we have many nominees tonight including, but certainly not limited to, such esteemed and venerable rap artists such as....

Snoop Doggy Dog
Notorious B.I.G.
Dr. Dre
The Wu-Tang Clan
Tupac Shakur
DMX
Eminem
Warren G
Ice Cube
Bone Thugs-N-Harmony
and of course..
Jethro Tull

yes, and with further adieu we will now announce this years winner

the envelope please....


































































































































































and the winner is....













































































































































































































RUSH!!

<crickets chirping>

[the audience says.....]
<whatda****?!, wait.... this just aint right>
<this is bull****!!>
<whoda**** is Rush?..... you ever heard of Rush?......>
<naaaaa>
<this is some lame *** ****>
<Rush!?.... why Rush?>

and to accept tonightís award...
well you please welcome....
... Mr. Neil Peart!

<a dog howls somewhere in the distance>

thank you!... thank you very much!... very happy to be here tonight

sorry the skeleton couldnít make it, he choked on a crust of bread last night

<you aint no rap artist!>
<go home!>

excuse me but...
Jack...relax
Get busy with the facts
No zodiacs or almanacs
No maniacs in polyester slacks
Just the facts
Gonna kick some gluteus max
It's a parallax...you dig?
You move around
The small gets big
It's a rig
It's action...reaction
Random interaction
So who's afraid
Of a little abstraction?
Can't get no satisfaction
From the facts?
You better run, homeboy
A fact's a fact
From Nome to Rome, boi!

<whatda**** did he say?>

i said....
What's the deal?
Spin the wheel
If the dice are hot...take a shot
Play your cards. Show us what you got
What you're holding
If the cards are cold
Don't go folding
Lady Luck is golden
She favors the bold
That's cold
Stop throwing stones
The night has a thousand saxophones
So get out there and rock
And roll the bones
Get busy!

<did he say rock?>
<ya he did, he also said.. roll>

thatís right bois, i said rock.. and roll
remember...
this is America
and no matter what style of music were talking 'bout
being the most worthy
means nothing
when units need to be moved past cash registers
regardless if those units be CDs
DVDs
or even magazines..
..such as Rolling Stone

but i thank you all anyway

[Neil grabs his crotch, spins, walks away]

Angiekay
03-16-2007, 10:57 AM
And it's a DAMN good thing Rush has 30+ years of outstanding innovative songwriting and recording to make up for that ONE song. I bet the hip hoppers wish they could say that.

preciousstone75
03-16-2007, 11:08 AM
Some actually could. . . but it's all just music in the end anyhow! In truth, I don't care for Rush, but I don't discount their contributions. I like their music- it's just Geddy Lee's voice that puts me on edge (just like 50 Cent, Lil John, and a host of others!)!

Sugar Hill did it. Blondie did it. So, Blondie's in there. In case you didn't notice, "Rapture" is nothing but hip hop in the purest form! I like Blondie because they weren't afraid to experiment and go there. Spandau Ballet even has a rap on "Chant Number One". So, music repeats itself. Every style influences the other, so why NOT hip hop?

And in defense of Tupac, if you go back and listen to a lot of his music, he was one of the first few to start writing his own music instead of sampling. All artists don't sample these days.

Another MC in point- DJ Quik. He started making his own way before it was fashionable. Sure, he sampled back in the day, but that is just like people who remake songs and make more on them (and even turn it into a hit!) than the original artist. Case in point- Paul Young covering Hall and Oates' "Everytime You Go Away".

And a lot of the music that is out now sounds the same; hear any bells? Remember when disco tracks did the same thing? Remember when groups came out trying to emulate the Beatles? There are some who really deserve their due, but when you have folks who are so-called experts saying what's cool and what isn't, all you have to do to get a clearer picture is listen for yourself.


Octo, loved that! You displayed the irony with awing clarity!:laugh:

Angiekay
03-16-2007, 11:29 AM
The difference is Blondie did it with ONE song, same with Spandau Ballet and Rush for that matter. The rest of their music had nothing to do with hip hop. They don't get in the hall for ONE song, it's for a career. For what it's worth, I love Blondie's music, but in no way do I think they deserve to be in the RRHOF either especially before the likes of Rush, Genesis, Heart, Yes, Styx, Journey and Pat Benatar. If they want a Hip Hop/Rap hall of fame...go for it. Much like they are not lumped in with rock categories at award ceremonies, they shouldn't be for a Rock hall either.

preciousstone75
03-16-2007, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Angiekay

They don't get in the hall for ONE song, it's for a career. .

So, is this the same reason the Fixx aren't in there too?

Yeah- one song according to the charts! But as listeners, we know different. Which is exactly what I am saying about hip hop. Sure, maybe folks who don't listen to it think maybe the artist had only one song, when in fact there were a string of records to back them up. And it's just like what Octo said- they go by numbers, not musicianship these days. Who they think is popular. This same mistake was made before with seventies acts that were put in; the only of which a lot feel is relevant now is Queen (check the database).

We could go all day; I respect your not liking hip hop; I don't like old country music, but I like the newer stuff.

Same old deal- someone else in control of what they think should be acceptable.

miked26
03-18-2007, 05:45 AM
thank you.... thank you.... yes.. thank you for coming tonight to the first annual Octopulse Rap Music Hall of Fame Awards Ceremony

we have many nominees tonight including, but certainly not limited to, such esteemed and venerable rap artists such as....

Snoop Doggy Dog
Notorious B.I.G.
Dr. Dre
The Wu-Tang Clan
Tupac Shakur
DMX
Eminem
Warren G
Ice Cube
Bone Thugs-N-Harmony
and of course..
Jethro Tull

yes, and with further adieu we will now announce this years winner

the envelope please....


Nice list Octopulse.......except for the Warren G pick. Not even close to comparison with the rest of your list. And may I add Eazy E to the list as well. Anyway, I would have to slightly agree with each major point. I don't think Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five should be going into the R&R Hall of Fame. But since they are, then change the name to the Music Hall of Fame or something similar to that, and then break it down into genre categories.
:tup: