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Fixxation
09-26-2007, 10:27 AM
Hello All,

I realize I am going to be in the minority here saying this but I have to say it. Anything that starts with illegal can't be good.

Please understand I am NOT a racist. I believe that anyone who comes to this country legally should be given equal rights. I have been thinking about all the myths you hear about illegal immigration to this country. I believe it does hurt all of us.

one myth I hear is illegal immigrants do work that American's wouldn't do. If Americans do not want to wash dishes than companies would have to pay more to dishwashers. Look how much the trash man makes.

Myth number two, it is not my money so who cares? It is your money. The government and big business really don't care because we the taxpayers end up paying for it in the long run. Through either increased taxes, depleted government resources and/or increased prices for goods and services.

What we are saying as a country. By the way, try to come to this country legally like I did. They are going to make you jump threw hoops. Waiting lists are years long.

Illegal immigration is not about racism but about doing the right thing. Everyone should come here legally.

Just my opinion,

Fixxation

Beached Male
09-26-2007, 08:33 PM
I'm not sure what you are saying.

Are you for or against illegal immigration?

Me- I am against illegal immigration, because it is just that, illegal. Whether it is trespassing on someone's property, even as a citizen of the U.S., or trespassing on our nation as an illegal, both are crimes, both are punishable offenses.

Unfortunately, for the "love of money" we turn a blind eye to illegal immigration for the "sake of the economy." I think Rome was the same way at one time...
BM

Fixxation
09-26-2007, 10:52 PM
Hello Bleached,

I was trying to debunk some of the myths. I absolutely don't blame anyone for wanting to come to this country legally. I don't believe that the people that are in the country should be hurt or being called names. Our government has chosen to look the other way and give all kinds of incentives for people to break the law and come here illegally.

I agree with you 100%. I think that greed will ultimately bring down this great country of ours. You and I, as the middle class, will have to support the illegal aliens one way or another.

Fixxation

Fixxation
09-26-2007, 10:57 PM
"sake of the economy." I think Rome was the same way at one time...


If you look at all great empires they imploded from within. Although, I support the war and the troops. I can't help but think what happened to England, Rome and Russia.

I only hope I am wrong.

Fixxation

The Queen
09-27-2007, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Fixxation
Hello All,
What we are saying as a country. By the way, try to come to this country legally like I did. They are going to make you jump threw hoops. Waiting lists are years long.

Illegal immigration is not about racism but about doing the right thing. Everyone should come here legally.

Just my opinion,

Fixxation

I thought I was the only one that came off the boat! legally too, so I'm all for it it. We had to do it, it was just assumed that we'd get sponsored, learn the language, jump the hoops, become citizens, assimilate, get educated and then find jobs and pay taxes just like any other US citizen.

Wow, when did all that become so controversial?

preciousstone75
09-27-2007, 08:35 AM
Thinks some of this is on point but then, when did anyone have a say in where they went?

If you recall, the first "Americans" were indentured servants- yep, America was a penal colony like Australia. But from a few of them came all of us. . . I think the way they use immigrant workers are a new form of slavery, but they at least get paid. Sweatshops and all that (jerkoffs!). This machine we call America would grind to a halt if it weren't for illegals or legals, so why not let them become citizens if you are going to work them to death anyhow?

Same whip, different day

not knocking any of you, but just think about it. . .

Fixxation
09-27-2007, 10:25 AM
Hello Queen and Precious,

Queen:"Wow, when did all that become so controversial?"

Perhaps this is a bigger issue in California than the rest of the States. But this is going to be an election issue as well.

Precious: "so why not let them become citizens if you are going to work them to death anyhow?"

Precious, I don't think you are knocking anyone. I agree make them legal. And yes, this is the new form of slavery. But there is a huge difference here. No one brought illegal aliens to this country kicking and screaming, they came willingly. Second of all, many of the illegals have the same right as American citizens if not more rights. They do not pay their fair share of taxes and reap the same benefits. Generally, many of them do not have health coverage and/or auto insurance.

The State of California allows illegal aliens to pay the same tuition as California residents. If you come here from any other State, you pay Out of State tuition.

If they commit crimes many times they are sent back to their country only to return again.

They use up valuable resources that are set aside for American Citizens. As I said before, Big Business benefits with cheap labor, the Government is really us when we pay our taxes. So who pays?????

Fixxation

preciousstone75
09-27-2007, 12:15 PM
"Generally, many of them do not have health coverage and/or auto insurance."

I can attest to a lot of legals who don't have health coverage. I myself cannot afford to put my own son on my insurance because it would consume 75% of my paycheck.

"But there is a huge difference here. No one brought illegal aliens to this country kicking and screaming, they came willingly. "

That's not always true. There are plenty who were brought here that didn't want to; sold into slavery in fact. This has always been an issue- not just for California like you said. However, I think that we should be taught Spanish (that being the language a majority of them speak) as a second language and that it be mandatory that they learn English immediately. Where I work, most of the children I teach are the offspring of migrant workers and speak absolutely NO English. The little that i know are basic things like shapes, colors, and a few phrases. It is unfair and absolute culture shock to three and four year olds to be thrust into an environment where they can't understand anyone around them.

They are just taking back what belonged to them in the beginning. On the other hand, crime has always been a problem regardless of what nationality the offender is. It's been escalating here as well (a lot of snatch and grabs at gunpoint).

Curious to see what's going to happen now. . .:shh:

Fixxation
09-27-2007, 03:44 PM
Hello Precious,

I have heard these arguements before and I have to say I respect you and your opinion but I cannot agree with you at all.

First of all, we are a country of laws. The law should be applied to equally to everyone. These people have broken the law by entering the country illegally.

Now you want to reward them. I think this is typical of what is happening in our society as a whole. All of us especially here on The Fixx board live our life by the rules and we are getting further and further behind. The reason is simple to me. We have intregrity and values. And our country is encouraging people to break laws and bend rules. Look at all the scandals in Big Business (Enron, Adelphia, etc). Not to mention the corruption in the government.

I heard on the radio that a camera system was put in to catch people running red lights. The system was supposed to catch 80% of people running red lights. The outcome was that they caught only 55%. Guess why??? The people that did not register their cars or have correct addresses on file with the DMV could not be found. So, the folks like me that are responsible who pay their fees, and register their vehicles get the tickets. The other get away free.

There is no doubt that California was once ruled by Mexico but unfortunately for them they lost a war. And the land was claimed by America. Sorry I can't change history. The Indians really owned all of this land should we give it back to them???

California is actually in violation of Federal law for allowing Illegal Aliens to attend College at the same price as Legal Residents.

I wonder what messages we send our kids by all of this! Don't play by the rules, cheat, lie and have no intergity because it will pay off in the long run.

Fixxation

Beached Male
09-27-2007, 08:25 PM
We should ask wealthy Romans during the burning of Rome how much that "globalization" of their time paid off. Even mansions burn.

In addition, they thought they were "high tech" with their aqueducts and piped water (oops--lead poisoning).

Pride goes before destruction (as the Bible says...)

The "love of money" is the root of all evil, not money itself, and right now the U.S. is quite infatuated with the stuff. We need a bit less, perhaps...we need to be "saved by zero."
BM

Diamond05
09-27-2007, 09:43 PM
Q: " I heard on the radio that a camera system was put in to catch people running red lights. The system was supposed to catch 80% of people running red lights. The outcome was that they caught only 55%. Guess why??? The people that did not register their cars or have correct addresses on file with the DMV could not be found. So, the folks like me that are responsible who pay their fees, and register their vehicles get the tickets. The other get away free."


I know locally (in NY state) that they have scanners in the cop cars that can tell when you pass them or they Zap ya like with the radar guns.... they can tell if your car is registered, insured, or if you have any outstanding fees/fines/ convictions.....

The newspaper has been loaded with these peeps that usually have no license,registration, or insurance, and have multi outstanding "fees"..... so i dont know if giving them more fines for not having these will work.... if they had the money, they might have registered the car!!

So they have been cleaning up a lot of the people that drive illegally, all from a UPC -like symbol in the reg. sticker.... or lack of one i should say!

I guess it may bea plus for the people that play by the rules, and rid the roads of repeat offenders would may just kill one of us someday since they dont care.....


Blues Brothers quote "they ve got "SCHMODS" !!!


is from the movie the "Blues Brothers" and it stands for:
State, County, Municipal Offender Data System,

the system the police use to start the famous chase of Jake and Elwood Blues. It's a good joke that most people don't catch in the movie.

Fixxation
09-27-2007, 10:09 PM
Hello Diamond,

Love the Blues Brothers. Perhaps the Big Rubber Biscuit will bounce back in their mouths:)

Fixxation

The Queen
09-28-2007, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by Fixxation

California is actually in violation of Federal law for allowing Illegal Aliens to attend College at the same price as Legal Residents.

Fixxation

That's the kind of stuff that just makes me get pissed! and can someone tell us here if we Americans could just walk into another country and get a free education on their tax roll? I don't know the answer to that, and think it's a fair question before we decide how to handle these kinds of issues.

Fixxation
09-28-2007, 10:39 AM
Hello Queen,

It is true at the elementary and high school levels yes it is free. Which I have to say although I disagree with it, I would rather they learn English and get an education.

At the College level, they pay the same fee as legal residents to the State. However, if you live in another state you pay much higer Out of State tuition.

Queen, the whole school system is out of whack. The Government has no answers to fix it.

Fixxation

preciousstone75
09-28-2007, 12:21 PM
NOTHING is free. I pay school fees and the like (and am supposed to be exempt), so no there is no such thing as a free education in the state of Illinois! Everyone pays these days.

The government should leave the schools to the regional offices (ie- governers) because they have no clue what is going on in districts. Our budget is still YET undetermined, and they don't know if they want to privatize HeadStart or make it a part of the Dept. of Ed!

All those nifty gadgets you spoke of have been in use since 1994. No surprise there. The real story behind the "new money" is that they can scan a person from God knows where and tell how much you do (or don't) have in your pocket! And don't get me started on those helicopters. . .

From the Queen:
That's the kind of stuff that just makes me get pissed! and can someone tell us here if we Americans could just walk into another country


We already do that. We call it Black Ops. Yeah, we should just ship 'em all out, right? Pardon my sarcasm. Even though they broke the law to get here, they get punished by it too. It may not be to the extent some would like, but what if we resorted to tactics like Malaysia where you get hanged for drug trafficking, even if it is your first offense? Yeah, Americans get punished by that law too- and they don't give you a chance to appeal, folks! If you get death, you're on schedule for the next morning.

We may have started out as a country of laws, but I only see them being applied to a certain type. Always has been, unless we change it. The Jena 6 situation speaks on that in volumes. The Shaquanda Cotton case does too. Why do you think a lot of countries call us hypocrites? We bully other countries into enforcing laws that we abuse our own with or, better yet, make only apply to certain people. I'm sorry, but I can't be that callous. Sure, we complain that there are so many immigrants, but what would you do if America suddenly went belly up and there was no way to make a living? Would you run to Canada or Mexico if they had money and you needed it? Hell, I would in a heartbeat, even if I had to break the law to do it. Why should we be upset that people want to come here to live and flourish? I mean, for a country that has the highest murder and violent crime rate (during peacetime, not war), we do damned good advertising. Everyone wants the dream.

musegirl
09-28-2007, 01:00 PM
It is so sad that this situation has been allowed to deteriorate into such a polarizing quagmire.

We live in Loudoun County, Va, which has been in the national news lately. Loudoun is the 4th fastest growing suburb in the U.S., according to Forbes Magazine and Census Bureau says that our residents have the second highest median income level in the U.S. We owe our exponential growth, in part, to the availability of inexpensive illegal labor, but we pay the price as well.

70% of our county taxes go towards education here. The rolls are swelling as the children of illegal immigrants benefit from the $14,000 that is spent on average, per child, each year in our public schools. Unfortunately, we still have schools that do not pass muster with the "no child left behind" standards because we don't have the resources to assure that all children are mastering ESL.

Other issues connected to our current situation include safety and housing issues -- communities like mine where town houses are crammed with people who cannot find affordable places to live. Despite the fact that most immigrants are good people who simply want to do well, these kinds of problems stimulate negative thinking.

Because the Federal government has been too dysfunctional or cowardly to do anything to address the immigration problem, people in communities like mine are arguing about day labor centers and trying to create rules that would tie employment with citizenship. In the end, at the local level, politicians can make a lot of noise and try to pander to people, but they can't create enforcable laws that will hold up to legal scrutiny. It has to start at the top.

It is sad that Mexico is such an unfortunate place to live that so many people want to leave it, rather than stay and reform it. For now, Mexico has a gravy deal. They have fewer folks to educate, fewer mouths to feed, fewer criminals and they get the benefit of all of the income that illegal immigrants wire back into the country to their families. At the same time, I must admit that I am troubled by the attitudes of so-called immigrant's rights groups who demand all kinds of considerations while refusing to acknowledge that laws have been broken.

Solving this problem isn't going to be easy, but it seems like the initial steps are pretty obivious. First, we need to build a fence. A fence. Not a wall. Something to stop the hemorrage of people for a time while we create policies that are realistic and fiscally responsible. Then, we have everybody on this side register to begin a process to be here in some legal capacity. Productive folks get to stay and criminals get to go back. It's not necessarily fair, but it's the only sane thing to do. (I say it's not fair because my husband just became a legal citizen after a 5 year process that cost us thousands of dollars -- it never would have occured to us to do anything different.)

These are just my opinions, of course. I'm sure there's no solution that pleases everyone involved. This looks to be an ugly mess for the foreseeable future. I hope that we can get a handle on it soon.

Fixxation
09-28-2007, 02:54 PM
Hello Precious,

I agree about our own Human Rights issues. We are really watching years of gains go back in time with all this terrorism stuff. I think we are better than most countries. But I do believe you are correct make sure that your nose is clean before picking other peoples noses.

I think we have come along way. Love how the French thumbed their noses at us only to find out the way they treat Blacks.

There will always be racism. I am certainly not saying that is correct. But even if you look at the white race. They have shades of lightness and darkness that are used as a hierarchy. For example way back when lighter skinned white people were hailed as being beautiful. Today ironically it is tanned white people that are in "demand."

Fixxation

pipsqueak
07-01-2008, 11:11 PM
hey just ah nose pick-en minute .

I agree that other folks
in other places
need too revolt


in ah big way,

yet
we did.
We did it to make this place..,
( that is supposed tah help and love everybody ),
where we now live & breath .
It's hard
it's messy
and been done before.

so before we start get'n all up`EH-tea about who's got what and how they got it
Please
try and stay AMERICAN shall we.. ... ?

preciousstone75
07-02-2008, 09:55 AM
We would, if we weren't broken into classes! How can you be a third-class citizen of a country that is so called "equal" to all? If anything, we should be better humans first and forget the labels. . .

I don't understand how you can classify a person due to their skin color. It just baffles me. If we were going to go that route, we'd all be second to the Native Americans whose land we yanked in the first place. At the comment earlier in this thread about should we give it back to them, I'd say yes, and not just places we wanted them to have. Even now it is difficult for them to get what they need. I say this as being a human and being of Native American descent. Yes, they retain their income from the use they have made from what they have, but let's look at cultures for a second. America is a place where we are all thrown together. Yet within that, some have been trampled, shot, raped, robbed, and stabbed. Does this mean we should cut off the places we "import" from? Not necessarily. If only it were as easy as posting ideas on this board to cure our society's ills. In another forty years, our offspring are going to look back at us and say "damn, they screwed up big time!" when they see how much disharmony has come of lack of understanding and patience.

There are so many things that could have been corrected by the flick of a pen, yet the hand that holds it is hesitant due to the dollar signs attached to such change and the ever-present popularity contest. Our legal cure to keeping others in their place has resulted in innocents being put to death, being imprisoned, or killed just because they fit a certain type. It's just like when the Japanese Americans were rounded up and put into camps during WWII just because they were Japanese and we were fighting them! Was that fair? No, not by a longshot. And one man's paranoia caused a whole country to cringe and accuse each other of being Communist at one time in this country. Sadly, we haven't come much farther than that. The world is accustomed to migrating people; look back at how civilization evolved. Only now there's brakes on it due to boundaries drawn in writing on pieces of paper.

Where will we migrate to when America is used up? The North? The South? Those are the only regions left, and they are melting. When our conquest moves us beyond gravity we will face a new challenge. Since we are looking at Mars now, what do we do if we go there and we aren't wanted? We'd be the illegals then, wouldn't we?

have a safe holiday- be humane to each other

Wilkie UK
07-02-2008, 10:15 AM
I'm an 'outsider' to this discussion, but in the UK we have been affected by illegal immigration issues, most recently from Eastern Europe. Having said that, the general concensus is that the Polish labourers are actually doing a better job than the English were, so no-one's complaining that much!
The guys at my local refuse tip are all Latvians, and barely speak English. I believe this is an example which someone mentioned earlier, of nasty jobs which English people either don't want to do, or have priced themselves out of the market.
i'm not sure where I'm going with this, but just thought I'd chip in.

preciousstone75
07-02-2008, 10:23 AM
That's what migrant workers started out as, and now it's an immigration problem. Yep, that is it! We were tired of doing it so we found someone else who would, and now we're overridden!

See what I mean? But that's when toes get stepped on; when you take yourself out of the equation, how can you expect to reap the benefits? So now we have this problem worldwide. It isn't just an American issue.


thanks for the wakeup, Wilkie!

Asuka
08-15-2008, 11:53 PM
this is a tragic article link that a friend sent:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/08/13/man-whose-us-immigra.html

Carrie
08-16-2008, 01:09 PM
Wow, that is sad. A lot of interesting points made on both sides...whichever one you agree with, enjoy (and exercise) the right to talk about it while (and so) it lasts!