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The Queen
02-10-2008, 02:06 PM
Have you all checked out Cy's new puppy on his website? not to mention another 'calm animal' shot on there too....very thought provoking. I would have left a comment, but somehow that function was not working for me. All I could think was: Cy as Chaim Soutine? brilliant!!!

EquestrianGrl78
02-10-2008, 04:42 PM
That puppy is sooo adorable, for some reason I couldn't leave a comment either, but I really want to. I love animals!:)

hazelnut
02-10-2008, 06:23 PM
The pig wasn't so cute! Was that Cy's handiwork? :p

The Queen
02-11-2008, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by hazelnut
The pig wasn't so cute! Was that Cy's handiwork? :p

I've read articles where he has stated that they are almost completely self-sufficient on their farm...that would include providing your own food.

Actually I was quite impressed. If we all had to provide for ourselves, we would be more conscientious of what we ate and where our food came from. I remember when we lived in France, as a child, we lived on a farm too, although we had no livestock, just poultry and rabbits, and my dad would go out and 'get dinner' for us. That's how people have been doing it for thousands of years.

hazelnut
02-11-2008, 06:14 PM
I don't disagree. I just thought the picture was funny, which is why I figured he took it (I thought I read he used to be vegetarian?).

I didn't know that they were so self-sufficient on their farm. But then, Cy is an impressive soul. It's more friendly to the earth, too. I would love to grow almost all of my own produce some day (I do try to support local organic farmers, I like to know where my produce and dairy comes from.) I don't think I could do the slaughtering though. Having a student apartment behind a butcher shop in Germany a long time ago kinda ruined that for me. But more power to anyone who can.

Carrie
02-11-2008, 07:16 PM
Cy's dead pig picture has been weighing heavily on my mind the past few weeks, but I've actually been trying to come to terms with his raising animals for meat since last November, when I asked him in Vegas if he raises sheep for wool or meat. He answered that he raises them for meat, and commented that most people buy meat in the store already packaged and bar-coded, so they don't have to face the consequences. I told him that, if I had to kill my food myself, that I'd become a vegetarian (again) real fast, and he said he would as well, so I figured he was sending his animals off to be slaughtered. When I saw the picture, I figured either he had avoided telling me he does it himself, or has started to since then.

At any rate, I had been trying to accept what he's doing, but the picture distressed me to the point that I couldn't, especially with him looking proud and almost smiling. I was very glad when I saw it that I hadn't eaten in a while (especially pork), or didn't have kids looking at the site with me who might not be ready to face the consequences of where their food comes from. As I said, it wasn't so much the idea of his producing meat that got me (though it does), as the graphic nature of the picture.

So I start to tell myself, "Calm down, you know everybody will only tell you you're taking it too hard...you must be missing the point". I thought back to what he'd told me in Vegas, and made a guess that he's trying to get us to think about where our food comes from. I imagine that, as an organic farmer and a good person, his animals are probably treated many times better than most farm animals, so then, can we not see pictures of their lives as well as their deaths?

And while Cy Curnin Pork Chops are more humanely produced than what I might buy in the local grocery store (making what he does not as cruel as what I condone with my purchase), having to look at the consequence of what he did has made me realize I can't in good conscience eat meat. I've always thought it one of the most abhorrent things I do as a person, and would put it out of my mind to avoid the distress, but now I can't eat it without seeing that picture in my head. So, I'm trying to make more meatless food choices again, because I really think we have a choice not to eat meat. Some would disagree, saying it's nutritionally necessary, and it is a challenging diet, but worth it to me when I'm trying to sleep at night.

So, I was feeling a little better, but still couldn't get over how someone who I think is highly enlightened, compassionate, and environmentally conscious (much more than myself, which is why I look up to him) could cut the throat of a creature he raised and sell its meat (the production of which creates a greater carbon footprint than raising vegetable matter). I don't know as I have a good answer to this yet. He may be of the opinion that it's nutritionally unavoidable, and may even feel badly killing, but he doesn't look regretful in the picture!

And that scares the h*** out of me, and did so badly right after I saw it that I didn't want to look at him or hear him for a while. I had even questioned whether I wanted to go on financially supporting his products, but felt horribly torn even thinking that, as he's been an incredibly supportive and enlightening presence in my life, and I feel compelled to do the same for him (though I probably lack his ability to enlighten, and definitely lack his delivery system :p ). So, I've decided that I don't have to buy meat from him, and will make sure Cy Wear hats aren't made out of sheepskin before I buy one, but that I can't (and don't want to) resist hearing what he has to say, because he makes me think, even if we end up diametrically opposed sometimes.

And I have to hope that someday people won't demand as much meat in their diets, so he (or other farmers) will take to growing something else. I dunno, though, I fed Dan a veggie burger tonight and he said he likes the real thing more :p

Aren't some of the guys in the Fixx vegetarians? I'll have to start chatting them up about tasty vegetarian cuisine the next time I get a chance...er, IF I get a chance...with my big mouth, they may keep me away!!!

The Queen
02-11-2008, 07:38 PM
Sounds like Cy's photo has people thinking....and in the end I am sure that is what he intended, although I would love to know if he really wants to steer people towards vegetarianism more. He'd have to come right out and say that himself.

For me, that photo is a reminder to everyone to remember that every meal you eat is special, and should not be taken for granted. Maybe a little more thanksgiving on our parts? Could this be why peoples have always blessed their meals before partaking? JMHO.

hazelnut
02-11-2008, 08:02 PM
It got me wondering what it must be like to go from living in London and NYC (correct?) to a farm in France. It sounds like quite a life change!

preciousstone75
02-12-2008, 10:09 AM
My grandparents had a farm in Arkansas. When my mom was growing up, she said Pop always did the slaughtering, but that Big Mamma broke chicken necks when he was out working the fields. Before we got all hyper-sensitized over killing animals more than we do about killing people, this was how it was done. It was nothing for them to salt and prepare their own meat, being you had to provide for the winter. It ain't like going to the market these days- you either killed or you starved. Big game was what you hunted for- it wasn't unheard of eating bear, possum, raccoon, squirrel and whatnot. If I had been born back then there wouldn't be a question, however now that we have the luxury of other people making stuff for us, we wouldn't last ten seconds if the pulse really happened and computers became obsolete.

To top that off, in '89 my biology class took a trip to the slaughterhouse. Imagine the how I lost it when they led this oretty little black and white heifer past me, gave her a jolt to knock her out, and cut her head off right in front of us! To make it worse, they carried the head right past me!:eek:
Me and my best friend hightailed it to the front of the building trying not to be sick, but the very next day I went and bought a Whopper combo w/cheese from Burger King and ate it like it was the last one!

think about it- eat or die (and that goes for crops too)

Carrie
02-12-2008, 03:57 PM
Hmmm...all interesting points. If I didn't have a choice of what to eat, I'd eat meat (though it would bother me). Since I'm fortunate enough to live in a time and place where I DO have a choice, though, I'm going to choose something else, and hope that I might inspire people to make different choices.

In cultures where the majority of people are vegetarian, it seems like this has been the case for some time, so even historically, they made a choice, but maybe their climate allowed it where ours did not? Even in meat-eating cultures, though, they didn't have the quantity of meat in their diet that we have (to excess) today, so at least it wasn't an overindulgence. I totally agree that the methods of meat production today don't encourage people to think about and hence appreciate the sacrifice (on the part of the animal AND the farmer). At least Cy's farm does this.

Dan is always telling me, "You eat plants that have been killed, how do you feel about that"? I suppose if I knew if or how the plants felt, I'd feel pretty badly :p I suppose the bottom line in all of this is leading the kind of life that atones for having to take something from the earth (whatever that something may be). I can only hope I'm doing that with the choices I make.

The Queen
02-12-2008, 06:32 PM
Great story Presh, and Carrie, I understand your lament, but I myself could not become a vegetarian. I generally do not eat much pork, and would live off fish/seafood if given a choice. But we're over-harvesting our oceans, so I figure focusing my intake on one area is prolly not a legit answer. I'll just graze a little here and there, and just say grace on the way, like a nomad.

Speaking of nomads, weren't The Fixx accused of endorsing nomadic living when they released "Less Cities"? I remember that controversy, I think it was very short-lived.

Doctor Roger
02-12-2008, 08:08 PM
Dearest Tree Huggers and Animal Rights Activists.....

I've read your posts with interest regarding the Piggy Picture and Cy. First of all, I read that the picture was from a "Pig Festival", which may mean that Cy didn't kill that pig, and that may not even be on his farm. Be that as it may, consider this......

Your typical can of tuna is produced in a much more cruel way that any meat animal. If you've ever been tuna or marlin fishing, you know about the "gaff" used to stab the fish through the jaw bone to get it into the boat. Then a baseball bat is used to kill the fish, who all the while is floundering for it's life. A much more cruel death than any meat animal.

Secondly, as a necessity, meat that comes from Cy's farm would probably be much more humanely raised and killed than most you would find at Lucky's or Pathmark (for the east coasters). Also, did you ever hear Cy tell his pet deer story? Ask him next time you see him and I'll bet you'll see things in a different light. Cy is an animal lover and slaughters only for food and then in the most humane ways. I for one applaud his treatment of all animals.

Then one only needs to look at the Love Hope Strength campaign. This is what's in Cy's heart, giving, caring, intellect, emotion. Surely his treatment of animals mirrors his love of all things living and of life. Certain things in this life are necessary, like meat for most people. Do you also shed tears for the cotton plant as it is raped and slaughtered to make the shirt you wear? Will you forsake cotton products because you know how the plant is killed?

Will you slay the lion, but not taste the meat?? Cy wouldn't I'm sure.

So, that's my take on the Piggy Picture. God put these animals on the earth for just this reason. And, according to the Bible, the smell of meat cooking is supposed to be quite pleasing to God. If it's good enough for Him, it's good enough for us.

Again, these are simply my opinions based on what I know or heard firsthand about Cy and his farm. Don't hate the player OR the game.

Love and Respect to All,

Dr. Roger

Carrie
02-12-2008, 09:43 PM
Few (more) things...

I'm not speaking about Cy from here on, as much as myself, so please take that into consideration.

I don't want to eat fish anymore either (I consider it meat too).

I DO want to hear the deer story, as I haven't yet...Cy'll probably never speak to me again, but if he does, I'll ask him. I'm curious.

Love, Hope, Strength is probably in some way supporting animal research, which didn't sit well with me from the beginning, but I supported it because I agree that the benefits of cancer research should be available to everyone...I just hope the nature of the research changes. I say this having a father who died of bone cancer and a brother who's a cancer researcher.

I DO think killing plants is sad. I think killing ANYTHING is sad, and pride in doing so inexcusable. Like I said, I hope I can do enough to atone for the beings that are killed on my behalf, and that I can cut down on consumption of everything in my life, most especially that which has a close DNA structure to my own. The stakes for me are high; I have a disease which required animal research to determine the treatment. I spend a lot of time feeling guilty for treating myself at the animals' expense, wondering if my life is worth any more than theirs was. I try very hard not to take medication for anything more minor than that.

I'm not going to be slaying any lions OR tasting the meat real soon...but agree that killing something and WASTING it is far worse than eating it. I have a very low tolerance for waste, especially food (and so many people throw food out these days, never thinking that it was something's life).

I don't want to get too far into the religion topic, 'cause that's a REAL sensitive one, but if I were to join an organized religion, it would probably be one practiced by largely vegetarian societies.

I think that humans ask way too much of the rest of the earth, and don't think about what we can avoid taking, or give back, and that it could really come back to bite us if we're not careful. I'm not thinking so much of a farmer like Cy (I'm sure he keeps sustainability in the front of his mind), as I am about factory farms, cutting down the rainforest, depending on non-renewable energy, mass-produced products, etc.

Anyway, I probably won't convince too many people, but I will say that I'm having a great time discovering new meatless foods, and feel awesome about it :D

Doctor Roger
02-12-2008, 10:01 PM
Carrie,

Try this it's GREAT !!!

Eggplant Parmesan (also works with portobello mushrooms)

Peel off the black skin with a paring knife.
Slice eggplant in 1/4 inch slices.
Place in a strainer with a heavy weight on it for 3 hours.
Dip slices in a mixture of egg whites and ice cold water (50-50)
Bread and lighty fry in 1/8 " of oil in the pan.
Remove and place on brown paper (shopping bag, etc.) to drain.
Sprinkle grated parmesan cheese and fresh garlic on the slices, set aside.
Use one jar of your favorite tomato sauce and fresh grated mozzerella.
Put a light coat of suace on the bottom of the pan.
Place a layer of eggplant, then sauce, then mozzerella.
Repeat to make two layers and cover in more sauce and cheese.
Bake at 375 degrees for about 25 minutes. Enjoy...

Dr. Roger

Carrie
02-12-2008, 10:15 PM
Mmmm, now you're making me hungry when I have to go to sleep! See what happens when I don't go to bed? :p Will put it on the menu soon!

musegirl
02-13-2008, 04:36 AM
Gee, this thread really morphed.

Glad we didn't put the "other" picture of Cy and pig up on the site. It was actually creepier. ;)

I have learned a lot about rural farm living from talking to Cy and it is quite fascinating how everything works. Rural farmers are quite a vibrant community, dependent upon one another for trade and the ongoing health of their stock. For example, they have to trade sheep with each other regularly, so that their lines don't become weakened with inbreeding. In addition, it's not unusual to trade a neighbor some of your lamb or pork for some of their beef. It's a very nice way to maintain relationships, to swap growing tips, and fill the pantry with variety. A farm would be an impossible financial burden if it wasn't working and producing.

I became a vegetarian in 1994 and in my mind, it was an experiment. I started off as a vegan initially, but found it difficult to maintain the lifestyle. Still, if you are going to take the hard line about not abusing animals to eat, that's pretty much the way you have to go, giving up dairy products. I lived that way for several years, but eventually realized I need the dairy for my health and well-being (ice cream being a mental health food). Within the past six years or so, I started eating fish again, once more for my health. There are a lot of health benefits to fish. I also didn't like relying so much on soy for my protein all the time. Every so often, I still crave bacon, but I've never given in. Fake bacon is a fair substitute. But that's just my story. The one thing I always say is that this isn't for everybody and it may not be something that's right for them their whole lives. It really depends.

Back to the matter at hand. Very cute puppy. Apparently he is the cleverest and most fabulous little dog ever. Hopefully Cy will fill everyone in on Tigga's progress via an upcoming podcast. He promises me there's one coming...

preciousstone75
02-13-2008, 07:05 AM
yeah, isn't he?


Wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes and just stating a fact. I eat a lot of vegetarian things myself (sort of):

Veggie pizza
Greens (with cornbread of course!)
Cabbage
Sweet potatoes/yams (these are fabulous baked!!!)

Southern cuisine has a lot of veggie dishes, especially if you go back and look @what we call soul food. It does sustain you and filled in the gaps between times when meat was scarce in winter. I'd have to confer w/my aunts and Mom on a lot of them.


Work it out, Carrie! :goodie:

msmith1
02-13-2008, 10:03 AM
Hey Carrie!
I've been an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 14 years. Everybody has their own beliefs and degrees of what they deem personally/morally acceptable. It'd be a really boring world if we were all the same, eh? "Big Brother is watching"...LOL!
Actually hate eggs but on nutritionist's orders (to me they've always tasted terrible, even pre-in my pre-vegetarian days) now and again, have to eat them to keep my bloodwork in order. Once in a great while, I'll have salmon or sushi (which is great up here in the Pacific NW)--fish is the only thing I've ever missed. Woke up one night from a dead sleep, craving a "tuna salad sandwich".
I think your body lets you know when you need certain minerals and such.
Drop me your e-mail, and I can send you lots of great everyday recipes!

Oh, and I'm NOT a soapbox vegetarian, respect other people's free will.
I just require the same non-lecture courtesy returned. It's all cool! LOL!

Kim:)

The Queen
02-13-2008, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Doctor Roger

Your typical can of tuna is produced in a much more cruel way that any meat animal. If you've ever been tuna or marlin fishing, you know about the "gaff" used to stab the fish through the jaw bone to get it into the boat. Then a baseball bat is used to kill the fish, who all the while is floundering for it's life. A much more cruel death than any meat animal.

.....
So, that's my take on the Piggy Picture. God put these animals on the earth for just this reason. And, according to the Bible, the smell of meat cooking is supposed to be quite pleasing to God. If it's good enough for Him, it's good enough for us.

Again, these are simply my opinions based on what I know or heard firsthand about Cy and his farm. Don't hate the player OR the game.

Love and Respect to All,

Dr. Roger

Roger,

I totally agree with you on the fish kills, it's awful and a reason why I never eat the stuff daily, although taste wise it would be my first choice. I wish fishermen would find better ways of being more humane in their catching....it has always bothered me.

As for your comment on God putting the animals on the earth for a purpose, I agree with you, and another reason I can accept using them as a foodsource, but one I don't like to take for granted.

I admire people being able to become vegetarians and vegans, I think it takes a tremendous amount of self-discipline and commitment, so kudos to all of you, and you all have the most beautiful skin too! I can always spot you guys, with the way your skin glows youthfully forever. So there's something good there. Maybe, someday.

But back to the subject at hand, that puppy is beyond adorable! and I'm afraid that Cy is not going to get back on the road till it's all grown up and doesn't need him anymore...which could be YEARS from now! But it's going to make for a hell of a 'big damn dog' as we used to say when we had a large black shepard/mix guard dog long time ago. That was her nickname, and she knew it. Tigga reminds me of her so much...minus the brown spots on the eyes. Now I live in a city, in a condo, so I don't have the time or room for one of these, but gads, if I did, I'd prolly have several, but females! Cy was brave to get a male, IMHO.

msmith1
02-15-2008, 07:19 PM
Just saw the puppy pic! Very cute!
Going to be a big one--that makes for firm early training!
Makes me really miss having a collie around.
Kim:)

little-bird
02-21-2008, 07:26 PM
I looked at the puppy and it's so cute. I would like to have a dog when my mom and I move to a department (someday).

About the pig, HOLY COW!

I'm gonna share this: I like BBQ pig ribs.