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lindalp
12-03-2001, 03:26 PM
Just curious as to the opinions of others here about the subject. I was out reading VH1 news and ran across the article at the following URL:

http://www.vh1.com/thewire/content/news/1451252.jhtml

My personal opinion is that I don't agree with CDs being copy protected. There's already a copy-write protection on the material itself.

While I do agree that it's wrong for people to profit from making illegal copies of material and selling to other people, I don't feel that buying an original manufactured copy and then making copies for personal useage is wrong. I currently do not do this for various reasons. I prefer CD quality over tape quality and no longer make copies from CD to tape for my own personal use.

When I have the equipment to copy a CD onto another CD I would very much like to have that right as a private owner of the original CD. The CD format is not without its flaws and they do aquire damage despite the care with which you might attempt to practice when handling them, transporting them, whatever. I have a Pink Floyd live CD, PULSE, which due to its packaging is becoming quite scratched and I will need to purchase another copy eventually. Of course I could always stick the CDs into another jewel case which would require me buying those. Anyways, whatever. In reality you should only need to buy one copy of a CD, it should last forever, but that's not the way it is.

I also do not have a problem with making a copy for a friend if it means that friend may like the music enough to go out and buy a CD for themselves. If they don't, there really is no loss, not really. I would think bands would depend on building a fan base from people who like the music enough to purchase each and every piece of material that is put out.

Bootlegging for profit is indeed a different story. Private copying is quite possiby coming to an end due to greedy people, whomever they may be.

Octopulse
12-12-2001, 06:23 AM
I agree with those views lindalp and I would think most other people would as well. If they try to take away my right to make personal copies of my music CD's I'm gonna be pissed. They shouldnt try to stop copying now just because they think they can do it because I imagine that some hacker somewhere will find a workaround anyway.

I think it would be safe to assume that a certain portion of the money we spend on most music CD's ends up being applied towards researching and developing ways to deny us the right to copy our music, and if a friend wants a copy of something thats just another reason I think to feel it's ok. My friend may play that CD for someone who will like it and buy it new, besides I agree that most people would want the frills of a new CD eventually if they really liked the music.

turgeon
01-21-2002, 10:08 AM
By law in the U.S. everybody has the right to make backup copies of anything they buy. It's part of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.

In the VH-1 Article the guy from Naughty by Nature is incorrect about buying 3 copies.. you only need 1 and your copies are legal as long your copies stay with you.

Fixxaholic
01-23-2002, 08:58 PM
Why would one need to make a copy of a CD that one already owns? IOW, why do you need 2 copies of the exact same CD? I have a CD library of over 350, many that I purchased back in the mid 80's. I have not experienced any problems with wear and unplayability on any of my CD's. Unless someone is playing a CD 24x7x365, the CD should not "wear out".

Additionally, if a friend has a copy of a CD that was mader as a "listening test", unless that person is an idiot, they are not going to go out and purchase the exact same CD just to open up a package, read lyrics and look at pictures.

While it can certainly be agreed that there are unethical users out there as well as people who do not abuse the copying ability, Policing the good vs the bad is impossible. That is the main reason why, IMO, why there is a "blanket" law against copying recorded material.

I don't necessarily agree with all of what the law stipulates, but on the other hand, some of the logic that has been expressed on this msg board is flawed.

Unsightly Waif
01-24-2002, 11:13 AM
I agree with Lindalp about copying CD's and how we should be able to make copies for personal use. I have on many occassions bought a CD and then burned it to another CD to create different mixes of music, especially favorites that I listen to constantly.

I disagree with Fixxaholic about why anyone would want to copy a CD s/he already owns. I have access to a CD burner and it is a great piece of equipment. Of course, copying CDs is just one of its many uses. I also disagree when Fixxaholic says the opinions stated on this posting are flawed. That is a pretty strong opinion to present.

I feel that some people, being baddies and making copies of CDs for personal profit and gain, will eventually lead to all of us decent people being prevented from making copies for personal use.

It'll end up with the industry policing the use of CDs that are bought, just as was such a big deal several years ago with putting warning labels on music. It is sad! I hate being babysat by the government, religion, or any organization telling me what I am capable of doing or what is good for me! I think this is totally grade school antics and I will fight to the end to keep it from happening!

Unsightly Waif B)

turgeon
01-24-2002, 12:25 PM
There are several reasons I make backup copies of my CDs.

1. I have a CD Jukebox at home that has CD-Text capabilities. It's nice to be able to burn a copy of a CD and add the CD-Text which most don't have. Now I have a copy that I can leave in the Jukebox with CD text. And I have the original I can take in my car with me. Also I can add extra songs (like B-Sides) to the CD. Imagine Shuttered Room with I've Been Here Before, Is It By Instinct, Time in a Glass and The Strain on it.

2. I have a copy of the hard to find Happy Landings EP. I feel much more comfortable lugging my backup copy around in my car that I do with the original CD.
I have legitimate uses for Backing up my CDs. One of the rare good points to the DMCA is allowing me to do this.

Octopulse
01-24-2002, 01:46 PM
from fixxaholic....

Why would one need to make a copy of a CD that one already owns?

One of the first things I did when i got a CD burner was copy all my "harder to find or outta print" music onto CDR's for safe storage and now It all sits in a box in my moms attic in case of fire or theft here. Plus if i was gonna go on vacation I wouldnt want to bring any "irreplacables" with me, I would wanna back them up and lug around the copies. Also, how about making personal mixes of favorites for certain moods or occasions, alot of people enjoy doing that.


Additionally, if a friend has a copy of a CD that was mader as a "listening test", unless that person is an idiot, they are not going to go out and purchase the exact same CD just to open up a package, read lyrics and look at pictures.

Why does someone have to be an idiot because they heard something and liked it enough to buy the official CD? I can see alot of music lovers doing just that and personally If I really liked something I wouldnt be happy with just a CDR.... so I guess count me as an idiot. Just ask my wife she'll gladly verify :rolleyes:


some of the logic that has been expressed on this msg board is flawed.

Thank you for not only providing that statement for our consideration but proving it as well within your post :)

Fixxaholic
01-24-2002, 09:01 PM
Nice points by several rebutting to my previous post. I like when people disagree...that makes for lively conversation and room for expressing different views. Don't get me wrong, I think there are plenty of legitimate reasons why one should be able to copy music; I am not against it. For example, to make a mix or "best of" compilation from one's library.

Making backups to take in the car or on trips could arguably be a legitimate reason but I see it bordering on the lines of paranoia. :-) If you buy something why not use it? Are these the same people that put slip covers on their sofas so as not to dirty the fabric? Or buy a new pair of shoes but won't wear them in the rain? Or make everyone take off their footwear when riding in your new vehicle so as not to ruin the new carpeting/floor mats? I am not an expert in criminal psychology, but c'mon, if someone is going to rob someone, they aren't combing through the house looking for import CD's. We are talking about recorded music here, not jewelry or fine art. But to each his own and certainly recognize that for every statement there will always be a disagreement b/c someone, somewhere will relate or not relate to it.

For those that are listen to CDR's and then still go out and purchase the exact same music, they are the minority.:)

Octopulse
01-25-2002, 04:38 AM
from fixxaholic....

I like when people disagree...that makes for lively conversation and room for expressing different views.
I feel the same way at times and there have been several disscussions within this thread in the last day following your post, and thats the whole point if you ask me




Making backups to take in the car or on trips could arguably be a legitimate reason but I see it bordering on the lines of paranoia.
I dont agree, I have CD's that would be impossible, or at least very difficult, to replace if they were ever lost. Driving across town is one thing but If I was to go on a vacation I would take a copy of one of those irreplaceables, not the original. Thats not paranoid thats just common sense.




We are talking about recorded music here, not jewelry or fine art
I feel alot of people would consider their music collection to be as meaningfull as any other art and theres probably an awful lot of people out there who have alot more money wrapped up in their CD collection than their jewelry or fine art.




I am not an expert in criminal psychology, but c'mon, if someone is going to rob someone, they aren't combing through the house looking for import CD's.
No they wont bother combing through it for imports/rarities because they'll probably just steal the entire music collection! Someone with the notion could stuff 500 CD's within a bedsheet and still have an arm left for your DVD collection. Ouch, that hurts just thinking about it :(

Let me tell ya a lttle story... back in 1995 when I was still single my home was broken into while i worked the night shift. They stole my super nintendo, a few games, a leather jacket, and a few other small things, basically stuff that was laying around the living room area. If they had taken the time to search the place a little further things would have been much worse. In my music room just down the hall sat well over 1000 CD's at the time, some irreplacable and none backed-up. When I walked into that room and saw my music still sitting there I could have wept with joy.

Someday soon you will be able to back-up an entire music library, even if it contains 1000's of CD's, onto removable drives that can fit into your pocket. Why not take advantage of that protection? It may take a while to back up a large collection but I can see people doing just that over a period of time, especially if their music is dear to them. Insurance in case of theft is not going to replace all the effort, all the time, and all the money that it will take to replace a collection, and some things just cant be replaced. A back-up drive, CDR copies, and other various storage media would be many peoples only "saving grace" in case of theft or destruction of a collection of originals.

melloman
01-25-2002, 04:35 PM
As someone who also spends loads of cash on CD's, isn't always as careful as I should be about them, AND been the victim of several car break ins (Not so much since I left Oakland California, but it still happens) i can give a boatload of reasons for CDR's.

1. I make mix CD's for personal enjoyment
2. I make backup CD's for driving/travelling with (I wish I had a burner before my 30 dollar copy of an import album got trashed over 3 years of use)
3. I make CD copies of vinyl I've had for years and years (like Phantoms) for personal use
Quote:
if someone is going to rob someone, they aren't combing through the house looking for import CD's.
end quote
Yes they will.
I had my house broken into and several import albums were taken, and many others were left. (didn't make sense to me either)

I have 3 box sets i like to have around, but I keep the originals out of harms way, and the copies in a jukebox, oe cd folio. I have had CD players go berzerk and scratch up the CD's. I work on computers as a job AND a hobby. they don't always work right. I also archive cd's in mp3 or wma format for playing at work. (can you imagine 120 CD's you own being at work and losing all of them? (backups, backups, backups)

I don't like spending dollar after dollar for the same thing. There's an album I must have bought 4 times, because of wear, theft, or change of media. How much has that album cost me? more than the one 30 dollar import, I'll tell you that!


:D

Unsightly Waif
02-13-2002, 03:44 PM
Thanks to Octopulse for reiterating the points I made in my initial response!

PEACE IS POSSIBLE ON ANOTHER PLANET!

lindalp
03-10-2003, 09:21 AM
Lots of interesting comments.

I completed a build a new and much better computer project this weekend. It works....it lives....! So, I'm on an ego trip at the moment. I'm on a technological overload at the moment. I can see why people in the computer building business make a comfortable sum of money. What a royal pain. I now know a great deal more about computers that I ever really wanted to know. And I still have yet to put a heat sink on my video card and install an ethernet card....blah....

It was nice to turn on the power for the first time and not have everything explode. That was a bit nerve wracking. But it was way cool to hear it booting up. I did that! A bit of minor tweaking of various items and away we went. And it still works.


Firstly, I'll respond to the making of personal copies issue. I had a new stereo installed in my car this weekend, as well....it's been a pissing away of much money kind of weekend. I deserve it. The sales guy was telling me that he had a cd book of about 125 cds or so in it that he left in his car. Someone broke into the car and took it. My oldest son has (or had, as the case may be) a rather nasty habit of taking a small book of cds with him on the bus and has lost 2 or 3 of those by leaving them on the bus. Every day that I go to work I haul cds with me just in case I've got to have a music fix at work. Recently, that's all I listen to at work is music, so I've needed them with me. I usually listen to talk radio, but sometimes that gets boring, and there is no adequate FM radio station that I feel like trying to listen to. I still haul my cds with me. I usually have a whole collection by one particular artist depending on what I'm in a state of mind for. Lots of wear and tear and possibility of theft or whatever. That would devastate me to lose that collection. Those are reasons enough for me to want to make personal copies. I also like to mix and match my music, different mixes of songs for various moods. My youngest son likes some of my music and I don't want him to keep my cds in his room for any length of time. Simply because they're MINE....my precious....Anyways, I own no jewelery. No interest. Can't wear it....makes me itch...even the so called good stuff. I also invest no emotions into bright and shiny bits of material things of that nature. My books and my cd collection are priceless to me. I'm not even talking any major collectible items. Just plain ol' books and cds. The books have taken me places that I could never get to, and the music is my preferred anti-depressant. Yeah, they could be replaced....but...

Secondly....I was watching PBS a couple of months ago and there was some guy on some show talking about how books, movies, and music could quite possibly go to a per use type of item to purchase. The details are foggy, I was doing something else while I half-assed watched this show. The gist of it pissed me off to say the very least. To not be able to have an actual book to have around me would suck. I like to hang on to the stories that have allowed me to escape the mundaneness of every day life. It's an odd soothing comfort that I can't/won't or am unable to suitably explain. And...no actual CD to go hunt down and spend time exploring other possible music ventures. When I've got some money to burn...I like to go to this place here called Zia's. I love to walk around and just browse and pick up the odd item I don't already have. I hate going to the cash register to actually pay for the stuff I find...it's scary! I walked into this place once back in 95 or 96 and heard some sort of music on the store's stereo that had no words and had a very intriguing sound to it....had to have it and thus started my path towards techno type music. I'm not that into it, but my older son is now. Could be that cd inflenced him...who knows.

I'm not sure how the whole music side of this would work, but it would seem the music industry is going to be a very lucrative business to be in if or when this happens. Af it it's not already, at least in some aspects of the business.

Sorry to be so long winded....my kid's driving me nuts cuz I am still sitting here at the keyboard and he wants to play his new game that doesn't lag one little bit on this oh so awesome computer.....

later....much probably.....I'll never get to use my computer now...

happy landings to all.....I'd rather not come down.

Linda