Hey Pal Howz ya Self Righteousness Today since the fourth is your peoples Holiday to (what is it called) celebrate!!! Otis told me about you and how sooooooooooooooo upset you were to have racist black people on your site attacking the whites in Louisville. Amusing too!!!!! Ive been reading all the postings and you know my indigent white friend think about wiping your own ass before wiping any others!!!! Anybody who smokes pot for twenty five years...ah the shit still in the system man and you is still acting out its highs in your brazen manner...does not have the head on straight or better still talks shit cause of a few of your cronies that surround you and HEIGHTEN the IGNORANCE you espouse since they is just like you!!!!
Even better than that thinks his act is soooooooooooooooooo well together that it is beyond criticism!!!! (Youre right and us dumb ass "niggas" is the trouble makers. Look at your own reflection first!!!!) Dont worry about a few of your idol's words getting out of text-what is that song you were hollering about, FATAL SHORE. I very much doubt you can even understand what dispora/the middle passage and its problems have caused. You have also stated, that you have 'thought all kinds of nasty things about all kinds of people...' Is it because YOU "THINK" you got a firm hold on the issues of the day, let alone another race? Interesting that you also said "If I used my head back in the 80's instead of goofing off, I would be already there." No bro, that definetly says you aint got your shit together in any kind of capacity!!!!!!! Ive seen your kind way too often. You l-o-v-e to get involved-from a long distanced away!!!! Always in the know...of nothing. So 'touchy" when another person speaks of how a (Oh better not use that 'sacred' word) white person takes advantage of a black person. Man who created racism in any form-we did????? (I Can hear you know, who does that jiggaboo think he's talking too!!!!) Your little tail has never been down south in the 40's/50's/60/s to see the atrocities that have gone on. I have relatives and distant kin folk who have experienced some unthinkable acts by "whites who were acting accordingly" to what they thought was right-their ignorant superiority!! (People like yourself need to log onto KEN HAMBLIN's website...he obviously mirrors you. He cozys up to the white high brow in Colorado Springs-where he lives-while claiming he's not allowing 'whitey' to use him since he is his own person! A liar- someone who just might be 'right up your alley'! (Now he's going beserkers- who the hell does this idiot think I am-I never caused any of this shit or did anything like that 'to any of your people!'
You dont have to man,...its what you 'dont' say(and what you also verbally withhold when 'speaking out' on these situations) when you 'act' in your self-righteous pious manner about 'race issues' Oh yeah, there are some 'bozos' like Jesse Jackson Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakan who 'try' to represent black people.
But also they also have the connections back to the whites, financially and otherwise, to hold back Black people. (that claim they are 'acting' in the best interest of everyone! BS!!!!!! Look Im 52 years old and have been an activist well before you were born! (Ive saved the little tear jerker for last since I didnt want to upset your 'comfortable armchair' position- Ive got beaten a number of times and have permanent scars to show-but the struggle still continues on even in the 21st century.) No man white people still have a 'sick' outlook about black people and what they 'think' they 'respresent' From Rap Music to the educational system And sorry to say, so do you. People like yourself HATE THE TRUTH since youre GUILTY OF what you 'say' you dont 'espouse' I can tell your interaction with Blacks has been superficial at best. Think before you getted pissed off at someone who speaks the truth and "IS" Really in the Know Justin
Hi Justin - welcome to the forum.
I've moved your post over to Sign Of Fire, our little place reserved for debating.
I do request that you refrain from making personal attacks against other forum members. It's fine (indeed, encouraged) to debate issues, but it's not ok to flame people.
I'm sorry to see all this anger and hatred in this forum. I was trying to ignore it but I feel like I need to say something. To Otis-
were only black people being frisked at the Louisville show or were all races being treated the same ? If only one race was singled out then you have a valid point but, if everyone was searched before the show, then you have nothing to gripe about. It's their show and they have a right to make their own rules.
To Otis and Justin - I grew up in a very prejudiced family. I didn't have black friends (didn't even know anyone who wasn't white).
I was raised in an all white community and sent to private school. When I went to college, I became friends with people of all races. I was never prejudiced despite my up-bringing. I resent the "us and them" mentality expressed in these posts. We are all one people and the sooner everyone realizes that, the better off we'll all be. No more "your people" and "my people" crap. There is still prejudice in this world but it goes both ways. Don't lump me in with the racist bigots who treat people badly because of the color of their skin. As for feeling guilty, count me out. I haven't done anything to be guilty of. And as for being "down" with blacks by liking rap- rap sucks! (for the most part). It's too bad so many can relate to lyrics full of violence and hatred. The rap that doesn't promote killing and raping is actually pretty cool. I was a Curtis Blow and Sugarhill Gang fan way back when. Prince is still my all-time fave musical genius (sorry Cy). My boyfriends fav. music is reggae and his best friend is black. None of this is because we feel some kind of guilt or something, it's because we like what we see and hear. I have way more to say but 'nuff said for now. Feel free to respond with any questions or comments. This is an interesting topic but has been way too mean spirited until now.
It is a sad thing to see this kind of stuff still going on in the year 2001! When will people stop looking back and start living for this moment? No one can change the past or predict the future, right now is all that we have. Not one moment should be wasted on hate OR guilt. Both are destructive to ones own soul. No matter what color, race or creed - none of us can cast the first stone, search yourself and think about it... Kat
Justin, I have no clue what you are trying to say. If you wish to make a point, then go ahead, I'm all ears, but everything you said made no sense, just like your friend Otis. How an incident at a Fixx concert blows up into a race issue on the Fixx digest is totally pathetic and shows no class on your part. Your a 52 year old activist wasting your time writing on a rock band's message board about the struggles of black people in America. You should instead be using your energy towards the younger black generation to let them know that life is tough and that you need to work hard to accomplish your goals. Despite your ridiculous views, it is not "whities" fault. You sit there and say that white people are against black people yet you are the one writing about how much you hate white people. You and Otis speak NO TRUTH in anything you say. You are just two black people who are angry at the world and taking your frustrated views out on a rock band's forum and members of the forum who don't believe what you believe.
I finally figured out how to get on this thing hooray!!!!
Justin, I don't know the circumstances of the Louisville show security. Different venues have different rules. But don't assume racist actions when there more than likely wasn't any.
Prejudice is on both sides...black and white. Both sections of the two sides that are racist are guilty, not just white people. Racism is also not just in the South, let me tell you. It can be anywhere in the U.S. What about the northeast, and the west coast, where street gangs, white and black, kill each other all the time? The motive is usually money, but sure, skin color can be a factor too. Wherever it is, it's wrong.
The other side of racism
You are over 50 and have seen a lot of changes. I don't deny there are places you cannot be treated as an equal, just as there are places I could not realistically go in safety as a white person. The issue of race may never totally go away.
As intellectuals, however, we must try to educate each other and learn. We must never claim to know everything, because it is then we proclaim our ignorance.
This means that Blacks also must learn how history and civil rights and racial laws have affected white people.
Just as not all blacks live in the ghetto, not all whites live in mansions. There are as many whites struggling for a fair shake in jobs, the workplace, and the world in general. Whites watched a man dragged from his truck and nearly beaten to death in LA because he was simply white. They also watched a man climb on a train and shoot every person on the train who wasn't black. They know the door of evil and violence wings both ways. They know there are neighborhoods they cannot walk though. Like blacks, they are scared and fearful sometimes. And sometimes, they feel they have been wronged for racial reasons (and sometimes, it is true)
I think it is time you take off your own colored glasses and see that not all white folks are rednecks and black-haters. We are not all racists. We are not all the descendents of slave owners and we don't all want to put blacks in jail. Some of us have black friends and co workers we respect and value (although admittedly, these people treat us as equals also and only bring up our skin color if we bring it up-they have moved on my friend). There are places where race has been set aside as an issue.
I just read your post and found I had to do some thinking about this subject again. I consider myself open-minded and color blind. I have friends and associates from nearly every race and religion and I try to be "sensative" (meaning there are a large number of subjects I don't discuss). You see Justin, in this land of free speech, there are things white people cannot talk about.
There is racism in this country. there are people of all races who face discrimination and the hurdles of ingnorance. But somewhere and sometime, Truth must be the answer.
You see I went to a College where courses in "civility" were mandatory and I had to learn how white people were oppressive and evil and keeping black folks and anyone else who wasn't white down. Sometimes, I admit, I learned some things I didn't know or misunderstood and I'm even glad I had to confront my own feelings on race relations because as a white, heterosexual male member of the species in this country, I represent the only group officially denied any special status of any kind. Instead of making me live my life ashamed to be white, the classes merely made me aware of the bad things some folks did and made me realize how the goal was not to create equality, but was a kind of revenge oriented legal war against whites in some cases. The goal of civility, I thought, was equality. Yet I was now one of "those people". I felt like the child of a rapist-murderer on trial for the actions of my father, actions I never did. This is wrong.
I will tell you a true story about my college after I have made my points.
In the United States, white hetro males are demonized by nearly every single special interest group. We are called racists and worse if we dare to complain about this situation. Even though most of us have never personally been involved in a racial incident, we are judged by the color of our skin-racism!
Just as white folks need to learn about the wrongs some people have committed, I think there also needs to be some open mindedness from our "monority" fellow citizens. Here are some facts you might consider:
1-Slavery existed long before the US and there were many many black civilizations and Indian civilizations that practiced slavery and racism long before "Whitey" did.
2-As to "repirations" (dollars to be paid to blacks as compensation for slavery in the US), we have paid that debt in blood. Thousands of US soldiers died fighting the south during the civil war and thousands of white southern families lost their men and boys in equally large numbers defending their "peculiar institution" despite it's hippocracy in the face of their religious beliefs. The current minority population is no more deserving of these reparations than the descendents of Union soldiers derserve money for freeing the slaves. The issue was debated and a war was fought. Slavery in the US is over. Debts and accounts on all sides paid in blood.
3-The number of minorities in the US when added together easily puts whites in the minority. Yet there can never be an NAAWP or a White Student Union. Such a racially organized group would be quickly shut down by the government. Yet such organizations exist for nearly every special interest group and race in this country. If white people try to organize as white people, it is labled violent and racist even if it is never violent or racist. This is reality for the white man, my friend. We can not be proud to be white, proud to be heterosexual, or proud to be men, because any such declaration is considered racist, homophobic, or sexual discrimination. We are only allowed to feel ashamed legally. This is one of the most oppressive countries in the world if you look at the situation here.
The fact is, we are all Americans, and we all have the same opportunity to a free education, free libraries, and capitalism. If anyone can't get a job with a specific company, they can go to another company. Try reading about some black entrepreneurs who made their own company! Not everyone is still bitter about events in the past.
OK. Here is my TRUTH story. I attended the University of Massachusetts during the World Series "race riots" that were televised back in 1986. The whole story was ignored by the media when the truth came out. The media was happy to show racism at UMASS, but failed to follow up and learn the facts.
As the world series progressed, each team's fans would throw a party outside the dorms after their victory. On campus, many of the NY Mets fans happened to be black while the Red Sox fans appeared to be mostly white (just an observer's view-I was there).
When the final game ended in a NY Mets victory at the last second, many Red Sox fans, expecting a win, were upset and since many had already gone out to the party area, there was soon a number of people from both fan bases confronting each other in the area. Many fist fights took place with instigators from both sides and victims on both sides.
One black Mets fan arrived with a golf club and began hitting many white students, some of whom had to be hospitalized. Many of the white men who had been hit or who were friends of people who were chased the black golf-club wielding man into a dorm and eventiually disarmed him and beat him.
This man told police he had been attacked because he was black and spoke of racial comments. He failed to mention the golf club or his own role in what amounted to an impromptu gang fight.
The white students who were involved in the fight were forced to leave UMASS for racially motivated actions. Their story about the golf club was ignored and the black student wass given a settlement. Unfortunately, the Truth didn't give UMASS the opportunity to show it was tough on racism.
Several weeks later, the same black man went to a Fraternity party and relieved himself in the Sports car of a brother. When members of the fraternity attempted to chase him, he ran to a police car and claimed a bunch or racists were trying to beat him up. Fortunately, the police actually listened to BOTH stories and yet he still managed to get a newspaper report published that the very same vistim of the UMASS race riot was attacked again (with no mention of his actions at the party).
2 Years later, my senior year, I noticed a very small article in the student newspaper. It was only a few paragraphs long, but it had been reprinted from the newspaper of nearby Springfield Mass. It would seem our victim of racial attacks had been arrested in Springfield for severely beating his girlfriend.
I guess the message here is that racism is a bad thing, but we must be aware of how some people will abuse the protections placed there for real acts of racism and that we must also put TRUTH above all.
I hope you actually meet some white people and make some good friends. We're not all bad. Really.
Jeff, I appreciate your sharing this story with us. You are correct in what you have said. Unless things improve, people are going to be forced to "take sides" even if they don't want to. (When it comes to survival, there is strength in numbers.) God help us ALL if it ever comes to that.... Kat
Last edited by itizuki; 07-25-2001 at 08:53 PM.
Ya know folks; this thread was originated on Independence Day. When I first read this post it was early the following morning and by that time it already had 132 views. I donít know what the rest of you were doing on that day but I doubt very much that there was that much traffic here on the 4th of July.
Otis is Justin. Only one and the same person can write such similar and hateful nonsense such as he has spewed out on this forum. He either reread this post over and over again while getting off on how he was about to "drop a bomb on Octo", and/or Otis wanted it to appear that a whole lot of folks had been "enlightened" by his "truth" by repeatedly coming back to this post and upping the view number. Otis wasnít into celebrating the 4th of July this year and decided it was a good day for mind games with white folks. Otis has no excuse or comeback to my last post under the "Totally 80's Tour" thread and he knows it. So he conjures up Justin the elder "oh so wronged and scarred by the white man" Wiseman to come and set me straight. He doesnít want to debate me or anyone else here.... he knows better.... so he sends a figment of his imagination to do it for him. Otis has an itch at the core of his being thatís telling him that he is wrong about alot of things, and because of that itch he doesnít have the fortitude to stand up for himself as himself.
Iíve read your posts at the black history forum and 99% of your rants are utter nonsense, a bunch of long fancy words thrown together in an attempt to come off as some kind of crusading intellectual. So you are a teacher of children huh?, that's a scary thought. Let me ask you something oh teacher of children.... when you are in that classroom and a white child walks up to you, what do you see in that child? Do you see an enemy in that child? I'll bet you do, and If I'm right then you should be man enough to know enough to find another job away from impressionable ripening young minds.
How many times has it been said by black pride groups declaring Africa to be the origin of intellect and the cradle of mankind? Well that may be true but I guarantee that as soon as one tribe saw another on the horizon thatís when it all started Otis. So I guess that must mean that Africa is also the birthplace of warfare and racism/tribalism as well. Evil and mankind have always walked hand in hand, you cannot credit Africa for the origination of one without the other. Kind of ironic huh? But where there is evil there is also goodness, and hope. I donít hate you Otis, and I dont hate black people either, though you must say that I do to justify yourself. Iíve seen first hand how people such as yourself love to distort words and ideas to get your agendas across. I know what Iím talking about here.... but you.... you seem so full of hatred and vengeance that you can't think clear enough to make a sensible statement at all. And I may have made a lot of mistakes in my time, and I may have smoked a little too much grass but I damned well know I make a mountain of sense compared to anything you have said here. It doesnít say much for you when a ďburnoutĒ like me checkmates you not once but twice on this forum. My advise to you Otis would be a real hard look in that proverbial mirror, some prayer if you are a religious person, and some anger management therapy.
You hate the 4th of July and all that it stands for, thatís plain to see. Well Otis.... America may not be perfect, and things may not have always been fair and just here for everyone that has ever lived on this continent, but evil is not a condition propagated only by white people upon others. Your ancestors may have had it very rough but I doubt very much that you have it so bad in todayís society. I'm so tired of people like yourself whining about how in America they cant get a break because some other group of people are holding them back in life, what a load of crap. America is a great and prosperous nation, and here in America anyone at all who works hard enough and is determined enough will find opportunities to better oneself, but alot of people just want to sit around and bitch and moan pointing their finger at others for their misfortunes when the source of their problems is themselves and their own defeatist attitudes. If you hate America so much Otis then pack your bags and leave, go on a fruitless search for Shangri-la, donít let the flag hit you in the ass on the way out.
ps.... I am sorry if anyone is disheartened by the all bickering on this subject, and I am sorry Jeff and Steve if I am stepping out of bounds a bit here but I feel I have a right to respond to defend my position and myself. I would not have replied in this manner if I had not been the focus of such a warped attack in this thread.
Last edited by Octopulse; 08-11-2001 at 05:25 AM.