Screw the Social Rules, let's talk Politics and Religion

[Beached Male]

Not sure if this thread will get any life, but I can tell you that after nearly 3 total years in foreign lands, my political outlook has changed significantly. I used to be Die-Hard Republican. I voted party line, didn't matter that candidates presented good arguments.

Over time I changed to more of a "vote for the best candidate" person, yet I still found myself voting the party line whenever I didn't know much about the two choices I had.

Recently, I changed much more drastically, and perhaps it has been all the reading I have been doing especially, but I turned my back on the Republican Party and joined the Constitution Party. I simply cannot support the two-party system in the U.S. any more. There are too many buffoons in both parties, both are morally bankrupt, and both of the major parties are spending the country into insolvency.

I'm not the only one feeling this way. Apparently, in June 2009 there was a 1% shift of the nation away from both major parties to a different status. In many cases, they've joined a party separate from the big two, and one biased report I read stated that the Constitution Party was the largest and fastest growing of the parties outside the big two. That's not why I joined the CP though, not to latch on a fad, but it was the party platform. When I read it, I agreed with every single one of their points. Simply put, the CP wants to get back to Constitutional practice.

What say you? Do you believe in Republicanism and the Prophet Limbaugh? Are you Democrat to the end, even if it really means "the end?" Sorry, I just had to jab a bit.

I don't want to overlook our fellow Fixxtures outside the U.S. either. For example, there's much debate now about individual national sovereignty in Europe vs. collective Euro-Union practice. Even PM Brown has to cow to former PM Blair because Blair may become the first "President" of the European Union. Some see the presidency as further eroding sovereignty in Europe. Canadians also have it rough as the perceived 51st state, so what are your gripes with overbearing U.S. interference in your affairs (or the U.K.)?

Looking forward to fiery discussion in here, if you're willing.
Oh, we haven't even started on religion yet, should save that for a bit.
BM

[Cary C-Troll]

This is exactly what I was looking for- refer to the pm just sent.

It's dangerous- aligning ourselves with a political party w/o researching and understanding its agenda. Presently, that agenda is to undermine our Constitution- the very document our government swears to uphold. It is happening under the guise that the Feds are stepping in to 'protect' us. All this 'protection' gives the Feds more power and control and less say-so to the individual citizens and state governments. This is not what our Founding Fathers intended.

It's very calculated. The rate that this is happening should churn our stomachs. We're giving that power to the Feds with each bill passed and each new precedent set by the Supreme Court.

Saw this coming...low & behold. The President ultimately has the say-so on appointments to the Supreme Court. These are life-time positions. For this very reason we cannot afford to think in terms of "no big deal...if this President doesn't work out, he'll be out of office in 4 yrs." Consider his appointments to the Supreme Court and the precedents set with each case decided by those appointees. And if that doesn't make you think...

How easy was it this time around for this President to slip in under this platform of "Change"? I've gone on about this before, but we subscribed to it without any details or outline, no specifics, only pomp&circumstantial ambiguity. What can we do once our leader is chosen for change, and the change he brings is a cabinet that looks remarkably like a cabinet from another (Clinton) era? Those were not the glory days of Camelot- so save it- I won't hear it.

And talk about the economy. Bad decision after bad decision- the stimulus bill drafted by the representative of a state with the highest unemployment & taxes??? Sending our economy spiralling deeper into a cycle of credit, failure to repay, more Government subsidy, more Government debt, higher taxes, less spending, thus more credit. It's absurd and fiscally irresponsible.

Keep reading and following what is happening in Congress, the Senate and the Supreme Court. Keep digging and never 100% make up your mind. As the laws and circumstances change, we have to keep reconsidering where we stand on issues. Principles and moral absolutes. There is your solid ground. All else is shifting sands.

OK- getting wound up- so tired- will be back. I'm not done. You've been warned.

[Carrie]

I hate the two-party system. Not a member of any. I often vote Green Party, but friends keep telling me that the two-party system isn't going away anytime soon, and I'm just wasting my vote voting for them, so I've been convinced to vote for one of the big two on more than one occasion.

I joke with my boyfriend that Election Day is the day we go cancel each other's votes...he's conservative (but does have some liberal viewpoints) and I'm liberal (but do have some conservative viewpoints). I've actually become far more conservative with age; I used to be an unofficial communist, and am now just quite liberal I currently spend time each day sending off a raft of animal rights and other petitions.

My religion, in a couple sentences, is that God is the divine process that makes everything happen, and permeates everything, even what most people would see as inanimate. Therefore, there is nothing that isn't sacred, and worship must be constant.

I'm dealt with a bunch of people in my life lately who think that, because I'm not their religion, that I must not believe in God, am not religious, etc. etc. I wish I could convince them that I'm very much at peace in my beliefs...I would think it would show. But this particular religion is frustratingly blind to there being more than one path to God (um, there should be as many paths as there are beings). But I might as well go beat my head on the wall on that one.

[msmith1]

I keep telling Ira if things really go down the toilet, we're moving to Sweden to be ex-pats. I could probably adjust to hearing ABBA some... LOL!

Ira's a liberal Democrat, and I'm a "free agent" (have voted 3rd party off n' on). Yes, we are NPR, BBC, Daily Show and Stephen Colbert Report fans.

Anyway, seems Sweden's got a decent handle on job benefits and health care. So what if their taxes are high--they're going to get high here, too!

Plus, their banks aren't failing like here, as they learned their hard lessons back in the early 90's about questionable loan practices and righted that.

And I can't take much sun and hate to be hot/humid--fair skin and all. I'd definitely be skipping their sauna/beat with a stick/jump in the snow aspect.

Originally, thought maybe Norway, since my family originated from there--but since Ira and I just went to the Holocaust Museum, we saw that they weren't too nice to the Jews (Ira's Jewish and I'm in process of converting).

Israel would also be an option, but the strife and perpetual upheaval surrounding there is pretty dang scary (and it's hotter).

Kim

[shoeman]

Don't belong to any political group, and haven't voted since 1984. Have always loved history though, and over the years have compiled a list of who I consider to be our best presidents.

I do pray for all people in government, and respect civil authority.

I'm a New Testament Christian(see my Homepage). I doubt if any of you have met anyone who is more conservative-to-the-extreme. But don't let that stop you from seeking me out, I'm definitely a fun-loving type and Shoeman's inherent silliness just might make you crack a smile....

[Beached Male]

Carrie - philosophically, would God be self-revealing to everyone or wouldn't that make everyone eventually be aware of Him so everyone would feel forced to believe? From that vantage point, seems robotic and unlike the God I read about in the Bible. I don't ever try to say "I think this" or "I think that" when it comes to faith and religious beliefs, rather -- I look to the Bible for Truth. Man tends to seek something other than God because what God inspired in the Bible tends to cut people, like a sword or surgeon's knife. Many people are uncomfortable reading the Bible and learning that God doesn't like certain things we do in our lives (sin), but at the same time God didn't make life all about the "don't do's" he does provide an answer. God shows His love in the Bible and how he is a Father to us and will always take us in, we simply need to have faith and ask him for that relationship. (we should discuss/debate further over time)

MsSmith - Sweden? Think about this - Swedish farmers immigrated to North Dakota, and they helped set up what is one of the most solvent and fiscally sound banks in the country - the Bank of North Dakota. The BND is the only state-owned bank in the U.S., and if you research what they've done, their methods would be wise to use in other states. Why move to Sweden when you can enjoy the long standing wisdom of Swedish immigrants in North Dakota? FYI, BND gives as low as 1% loans to their farmers. North Dakota is the polar opposite of California right now, and the state should be proud of itself. What they did when they made that state bank -- they forced out the predominiant out-of-state bankers who were just there to feed off of them, and instead are reaping a great harvest, pun intended.

Shoe - you and I would definitely get along chatting about religion and New Testament beliefs while enjoying root beer floats at an A&W stand! I don't look down on alcohol though, as even the Bible says to give drink to those that are down/depressed. However, I've never felt that bad. In addition, Solomon said to stay away from drunkeness if you are to make decisions of a king. That logic especially applies to military decisions, which is primarily why I don't drink alcohol. Have you looked at the Constitution Party's platform? You may find their points in line with your beliefs. At minimum, check out what the last candidate Chuck Baldwin is doing with the church he leads in Pensacola - definitely looks like a man bearing fruit.
BM

[Carrie]

Kim - me too on the Norwegian heritage - great-grandparents emigrated from there, we still keep in touch with some family, and I myself have been there twice. I wonder how much of how the Norwegians treated the Jews was due to their being occupied by the Nazis and feeling they had to do what the Nazis wanted or be killed themselves (my relatives were essentially prisoners in their own home, and ceased to have any say in what went on while the Nazis were there). Then again, I might have rather been killed myself than do someone's evil bidding, if they asked me to do something egregious...

BM - back to God...I suppose I think It's self-revealing, but of course, one has to be receptive and discerning to notice It's there. I don't follow the Bible; I'm not Christian nor Jewish. I think, as a human construct, it's too small a slice of a universe that is so much larger than we are. I just cannot believe that God would come to us in our image when there is so much more beyond us (maybe even other "people"). Then again, I'll give Judeo-Christians the argument that God may have come to humanity in its own image because that's the only way It "thought" we'd understand (thought being too human a concept as well, but I can't think of a better word at the moment).

I remember the day back in Catholic school when they tried to tell me animals have no souls (my family wasn't Catholic, BTW, just trying to find a school that I'd fit into, not realizing it doesn't exist ). I wanted to respond, "Bulls**t!" so bad I could taste it. Sorry, to me, everything has a soul - my cat, my pen, the distant planets we haven't even found yet, and ALL the space in between.

[Cary C-Troll]

- There is so much prophecy of the coming Messiah in the Old Testament- throughout- written hundreds of years before Christ.

-I believe the Bible is the complete, infallible truth and Word of God- given to us through Divine inspiration. I believe it is the Living Word because of the power in it (once 'it' manifests itself, it is truly undeniable). It is a book of love and it is a book that offends- yes, it cuts indeed. It forces recognition of human nature and design, not candy-coated. It takes away the comfort of gray and leaves us with black or white.

I believe we are designed (yes, created) for God's purposes- to search Him out. His desire is for ALL to come to Him- so that we do not destroy ourselves. But we go so far in all other directions, missing the mark, missing the blessings (I do this everyday), looking everywhere else and trying anything but- denying ourselves of Him, denying Him.

No one is perfect, not Christians, not non-Christians. That's not at all what Christianity is about. I will continue falling on my face in great mistakes for the rest of my life, no matter how hard or how little I try. But I know that I have my Creator on my side and always willing to step in & lead if I ask. I have to ask each day, as often as.

The devil would have us think differently...helps divide us and stir up hate. He is a deceiver. Hopelessness, hatred, confusion- it's all in that web.

And with that I have to say that I do not hate anyone b/c Christ commanded us to love everyone. In my natural-sinful condition, I could hate the person that nearly ran me off the road w/ my toddler in tow. But Christ puts me in check b/c I don't have the power alone to keep myself in check.

I am so pleased to see so many different ppl here that have posted throughout this board expressions of love and peace- that is the message of Christ. That message gets really, really lost when we (Christian or not) start changing it and twisting it for our own ungood and ill-gain. Christ would denounce all the evils done in His name. The devil wouldn't want any of us to discern the difference.

Satan has studied us all since the beginning (yes, the Genesis beginning) and he knows what makes us tick and how to trip us up to keep us divided, defeated, depressed, all that stuff. I've been an easy target for his spiritual warfare. But because I have experienced grace- I have a Defender, a Protector, a true Father. I have peace.

[msmith1]

BM- Thank you, something to think about. I didn't know that about ND.

Carrie--Think I'd like to read further on that--the Norwegian/Nazi history.
Hey, you're a fairly new Norwegian-American! That's cool! I don't know any relatives over there, yet--my father's family emigrated around the time of the Thirty Years War. Our family name is the merchant long ship. I can never tell from pictures if it's a horse or dragon head on the bow--hope to see a recreated ship in a museum sometime. My mom's Czech/English and old school Roman Catholic--so I know what you mean--the idea of soul-less animals is just plain wacky and wrong to me, too.

BM, Cary & Shoeman--It's wonderful you're so passionate, yet tolerant, in your beliefs. It took me a very long time to find faith, so I really appreciate people who totally know where they stand, what they are about.

Except for this guy (quoted from yesterday's paper, a big article about Shiism in America): "Christanity is an upgrade from Judaism, Islam is an upgrade from Christianity."

What do you guys think about that?

Kim

[The Queen]

I'm with Cary and BM, so elequently stated, and I wish I had more time to write what I really thought, but I may do that later.

The gears are spinning.

Edited: I had the wrong Cary, so many east coast Carrie's! and I care about all of them!

[Carrie]

Ugh, what a comment (that that guy made). It proves my point that we'd all be better off to realize that there are many paths to God because there are many different people searching, each trying understand the same concept, but it a way that makes sense to that individual. I think it's a far more important thing that people are asking questions, than the method of how they go about it. This seems to get lost so much in religion, though. I love to speak about what I believe, yet realize that it isn't going to be the way most people (or anyone else) understands God, and that's fine. I just wish that I'd be afforded the same courtesy. I do have to applaud the number of Christians here who haven't tried to tell me that, because I don't see God in the same way they do, that I'm going to hell or can't know It. I have too many experiences that ARE like that (including people I'm having to wait on at work!), and see it as bullying and aggression, which I have no tolerance for in my life. I'm getting a small taste of what natives of our countries' colonies must have been put through (a very small taste, admittedly).

I've been very fortunate to have had diverse religious exposure; my family is Protestant Christian, I went to Catholic elementary school for three years, went to a majority Jewish high school, with a smattering of Muslims and Christians thrown in, and ended up a...whatever I am It reminds me of a comment Cy made on the Nepal trek while spinning the prayer wheels where he said that if he practiced some of all religions, he'd be sure to be doing the right thing. Maybe we all ought to aim for that!

That brings me to something I've noticed; that even though the Fixx have been very questioning of Christianity or religious dogma in general (think Digging Up The Rock, Sense The Adventure, and Walkabout for example), they have a fair number of Christian, sometimes devout, fans. So, either the fans are questioning of their own religious experience, while not necessarily abandoning or changing it (which I think is a good thing), or they don't realize the band is so openly questioning it. I don't think it's an accident, though, that even the devoutly religious among us are more tolerant than most devoutly religious people in society (some of whom I fear have been brainwashed). So once again, yay Fixx and its fans!

[Diamond05]

you forgot "Everyone believes in Something"

I believe i'll have another beer.... later tonight-

; )



♦ D3

[shoeman]

Kim---Your gracious remarks reach me in a really good way. You have been so good to me since I've been on this forum, and you can be sure I have nothing but pure love for you, Ira and the pets.

BM---I really appreciate your insights on spiritual matters. I recall reading your thread on Martin Luther and the pope, that was an incredible piece of scholarship. I do pray for your safe return from Iraq, and wish there was some way I could treat you to an A&W somehow, somewhere.


All the best to everybody....


John

[Cary C-Troll]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80303867390173

wondering if anyone else has seen this?

Decided to watch it again this evening...knowing it will start those wheels spinning in my head. I hope everyone sees it at some point. Alot of food for thought. You can watch it on the web.

The segment about the owners of The Jewish Mother is extremely disturbing. Who are the terrorists now? Watch it, you'll see.

There is a segment from a juror on the IRS v. W. Harrell. If you ever have the opportunity to serve on a jury- please engage and speak up. It is our civil responsibility. It's amazing how one voice in a room can influence a group.

I know I'm all over the place with this, but watching this dvd again made me think of how many people ask me about our Constitution (for our church). They're asking me instead of reading for themselves. I gladly tell them, hand them a copy and show them where to find the answer to their specific questions. I want them to read it for themselves. If you watch this video, you'll understand why that is so important. It is so important.

[msmith1]

Thanks Cary, for bringing that topic up.

Back in the Midwest, my small biz was randomly selected for the dreaded "A" word. It was very stressful, time-consuming, plus expensive as had to pay my accountant for that extra work...and in the end...they owed ME $ 3 bucks! Good freakin' grief!

That's really how it is--harrassing the small fry and turning a blind eye to the big fish! No wonder nothing ever gets done--it's a plot to look away.

That said, support your local small businesses

I've served on 2 juries.

One where a guy staked out a quickie mart for 7 hours, w/ a gun btwn his butt cheeks and a rifle down the side of his pant leg. It was a trial for his driver. The little old ladies on the jury took pity on him, they finally wore me down after 13 hours of deliberating-- I was a youngster back then and wanted to go home. Oh, they passed the butt gun around to us...YUCK!

Now, you tell me... how could a friend/driver NOT know his friend had 2 guns like that, sitting for 7 hours in a car casing a place??? Get real.

Surely, he'd have been like "Man, this butt gun is chafing me" or "My leg is cramping from keeping it in this position, due to the GUN DOWN MY LEG" or "Don't get me a super slurpee--or I'll have to pee and my guns'll fall out"!!!

The other was an arson case. This little tiny guy had set several fires to get away from his evil witch of a wife. She really WAS evil! She took the stand and totally emasculated him! We all felt sorry for him, and he was guilty...he even said so! I don't know why they even made it a jury trial.

After the sentencing, he came over looking very relieved and shook all our hands and was very profusely "thank you, thank you". I'm sure if he'd been let off, she'd have beaten him up when they got home. Just glad no one got hurt in those fires. It sure was an odd case!

Kim