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Thread: Screw the Social Rules, let's talk Politics and Religion

  1. #31
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    Originally posted by dejapete
    As I mentioned in another thread, I'm joining a church soon. It's a Presbyterian church, which is a part of my family heritage. Presbyterians believe in predestination, which on the surface, seems like belief in fate, harsh even. Actually, it's simply a recognition of the sovereignty of God. It is God who judges, not the Christian, leaving us free only to love. That's my interpretation of it, anyway.
    Great to hear! from another Presbyterian, Reformed.
    I wish more people would understand that it's all about the sovereignty of God and His grace.
    Humbling.
    I am the winner in any event.

  2. #32
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    John Piper

    It's about His grace extended to us. Not something we earn by deed or other human effort.

    Romans 8:28-30

    And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
    For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
    _____________________________________________
    That's pretty powerful and clear.

    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




  3. #33
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    Smile Me too - a recent convert

    Since December I have been attending a progressive Presbyterian Church. I am loving and trying to live the messages that I am learning . The Pastor is very liberal in his views and leaves us with thoughts to ponder at each service. I am enjoying my journey

  4. #34
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    This website will challenge what you consider the "norms" in your faith and in science. Both "evolutionists" and Christians are surprised at concepts where their going assumptions are challenged by both reason and physical evidence. If you choose to read some of the articles here, beware, you may not ever have the same perspective on Creation, Evolution, and what man "was" ever again...
    http://s8int.com/index.html
    Navigating the pages can be problematic - use the "next" link at the bottom of each page, but unfortunately it doesn't list which page you're on as you go through each section.

    BM
    I've been lurking...

  5. #35
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    Another Wake-up Call

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html

    Another scare tactic by the government to get us to surrender more rights to them. Oh, help us indeed. Are we to be convinced that we need Big Brother to watch over and control everything? The internet? Healthcare? One thing after another until we're in a new-wave Nazi state.

    Wow, kind of dramatic, I know.

    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




  6. #36
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    Senator Rockefeller is the one behind that cyber-security bill, so it's no wonder. He's not just supporting the "elite," he is part of the elite crowd. I wouldn't trust anything coming out of his office. That guy conveniently has big friends in both Dem and Repub parties, which is no surprise. An example of how someone like him acts - he helps push for the Iraq invasion and later goes against it all. A very easy way to treat the whole thing, pull the "I didn't know" routine. Here, read the bio for yourself. Do you think he holds America's best interests in mind when he votes?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Rockefeller
    BM
    I've been lurking...

  7. #37
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    Healthcare Meeting

    Our local congressman came and gave a Healthcare Reform presentation today.

    There were alot of folks in the crowd bringing up the Constitution and how healthcare is not addressed in it.

    I didn't get a chance to speak, but I wanted to say remember your history.

    When the Founding Fathers wrote that, the life expectancy was not very long for the average person...lucky to reach 30 or 40 if survived childbirth, childhood, the toll of everyday hard laboring or major nasty diseases.

    If we stayed with the Constitution exactly, our militia would not include an Airforce or NASA. There are no mentions of those; it'd be just Navy, Cavalry and Infantry, folks.

    We wouldn't have the CDC, OSHA, NOAA, Social Security, Medicaid or Veteran's healthcare, Hoover Dam, Public Schools, EOE, the Highway System and other such modern conveniences (re: Veteran's healthcare, the Constitution allows for an operating "standing" militia, not aftercare or the disabled).

    No bailing out the automobile industry either--no horseless carriages mentioned in there.

    As far as guns, I'm sure they were thinking of muskets, not automatics.

    What I'm saying is...times change, societies change and allowances must be made for that...ammendments.

    Just my 2p,

    Kim
    Last edited by msmith1; 08-30-2009 at 01:03 AM.
    My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.
    ~Dalai Lama

    I reject your reality and substitute my own.
    ~Adam Savage

  8. #38
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    not paranoid, I'm just cynical



    It’s the fundamental principles behind the Constitution that are key. Americans don’t believe that our government would take advantage, take absolute control and power. While the original Constitution was drafted in a different world over 200 years ago, it was done so with careful consideration of man’s nature to abuse power. It is completely relevant today.

    Look at the Declaration of Independence. Those principles are timeless. Yes, amendments are needed to keep up with change and technology. Those amendments should be considerate of progress and freedom, not constricting and binding us because we’re giving up individual and states’ rights to federal government organizations that are ultimately controlled by the wealthy elite (these people do not have your best interests in mind).

    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That is ‘life’- not destruction of it (really think about that), ‘liberty’- not government control stifling and eliminating our choices little-by-little, and ‘the pursuit of happiness’- your dreams and mine, whatever they may be- not pigeon holed by someone in charge (our government), controlling and bending the playing field to a socialist nightmare where we all only advance to pre-set limitations and parameters.

    None of you want me making key decisions for you and your family. I don’t know you and your individual circumstances. You have no basis of trusting me to take care of you and yours. You don’t know or understand what motivates me. So, why in the world would any of us trust the federal government with that kind of control and power? And our government absolutely wants that power. Politicians are bought and paid for by the elite. Politicians will cave to the dollar- and out the door go your best interests.

    We do need regulations for improvements and safety- for the very same reason we would not give total control to our government: Anything left unchecked will eventually lead to abuse of power and be taken advantage of by people given to greed. So, anytime these bills, regulations and policies are being drafted ‘for our benefit’, they need to be CAREFULLY considered for loopholes that lead to loss of freedoms and exploitation. And, especially in this economy, considered for how financially viable they are and- for- WHOM.

    Liberal politicians and their charmed constituents rally for socialistic policies and plans. And we believe they really want to take care of all Americans? Have we not learned anything from the condition of veteran hospitals? Tricare? ACORN? Who benefits from these? Government programs = more money for the wealthy elite. Who else benefits? Usually, those unwilling to work, illegal immigrants, anyone that will not contribute to paying the bills that you and I pay. Who’s left paying the price? Hard working Americans, our military and their families. Many Americans don’t believe that there are people in this world that just sit on their asses waiting for a handout. They come in two forms- the wealthy elite and the poor opportunists. When we all see these people operate on greed, we’ll stop believing in the socialistic dream and recognize it for the nightmare it really is. And I was born and raised ‘lower class’. So, I’m not looking down my elite nose at anyone. This is the reality that they don’t see in Kennebunkport and the Hamptons. They have no idea.

    Liberal politicians- their platform speeches are no different than those of Miss Universe and Miss USA. We want to hear it and believe in it, but they have no solid plan or successes on which to stand. In a way it does all come down to this collectivism- mentality that somehow we’re all going to suddenly get along and agree on key policies and principles, have a Coke and a smile and give peace a chance. We can’t even get along with our friends, families and neighbors long enough to make it through a backyard BBQ or Thanksgiving dinner.

    My point: This is why freedom as defined in the Constitution is so important. As it was written, I decide and you decide…the government doesn’t decide for us.
    Last edited by Cary C-Troll; 08-30-2009 at 07:30 PM.

    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




  9. #39
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    This one has potential to be my most controversial post to date...

    Let me lead off by saying this - I abhor and really hate what the Germans did in World War II to not just the Jewish people, but in what their strategy was in total. I'm not condoning what they did in my analogies, but we must view history with multiple perspectives to see the truth.

    When we do look at history, we must look at the complete history, the preparatory events, the events, and the aftermath. What do we tend to look at? Well, often the aftermath only if we have no video footage or photographs of the time. The stories are just that - stories, that are subjective and often embellished. (In War, he who wins writes the history) For some events, especially World War II, we tend to only look at the events from our Western/U.S. perspective and the aftermath from an overly glorified and "big fish" perspective.

    Who learned in school why the Nazis came to power in 1930s Germany? Did anyone actually learn about the starving Germans of the 1920s, the oppression, the poverty, the absolute gutter they were in as a nation? So how then do the Nazis come to power? Because of the PROMISES made, that's how. All those promises. Hitler won an election of the people (does that mean he headed up a Democracy?). The people of Germany CHOSE Hitler, he did not seize power. Along with his banter about racial superiority and other silliness (that they as a people took seriously), Hitler later would promise the German people that in conquering to the East (Russia), Germans could return to their historic roots in Russia to farm and own land there! Hitler's vision was Utopian for his people, not destructive. It's just that his "Utopia" was especially destructive to everyone outside Germany. However, with time his Utopian vision consumed Germany, and the German people were even worse off for having pursued Hitler's dream. Well, maybe we need to also go a bit further back than the elections in Germany to see why of all parties the Nazis emerged from that mess, look at how Nazis were funded at a time when Germany was extremely poor - how did Hitler rise to power? How did that propaganda machine take a man that only won roughly 33,000 votes in a prior election to winning the next election with a majority vote?

    Central Bankers, that's how. The head of the Central Bank of England met with the head of the Central Bank of Germany, and a deal was struck. Germany was given funds for one specific mission - eradicate Communism from Europe. Are you aware of this transaction? Schools don't teach this. However, it is historic fact, and surpressed. Maybe Chamberlain's speech and the initial "relationship" between Germany and Britain comes into context. The Germans were infused with capitol to rearm and fight a war by bankers, the elite. Even the Russians were ignorant of the ploy. Russia initially was allied with Germany also, and let the German military train on Russian soil since Germany had restrictions from the past WWI agreements. When most people hear for the first time that the Central Bank in England helped fund the German Nazis, they usually scoff as if it is conspiracy theory, but it is conspiracy fact. More on Central Banks later.

    Back to the "Promises" made by Hitler - it was a very tribal appeal that was rooted in centuries of continental infighting in Europe (go back thousands of years - the German people emerged over time as the supreme Tribe of Europe). No different, Hitler came out and told the tribe they were physically and mentally superior to everyone else. They all got in line and the tribe went to war, and the people and factories gladly followed suit.

    I see no difference in current political undertones not just in the U.S., but around the world. People in search of a better life will let envy and covetousness influence their mental decisions, but that's just a mental "sin." People who are literally starving and scraping from the gutter will go further, they will come together and fuse themselves in deadly war machines, like any other starving tribe would. That's my concern - the world has more and more poverty and hunger, but in places where plenty of war machinery is either available or easily made. Having said this, one counter point - the machete is the weapon that killed more people in the 20th Century than any other single weapon, so gearing up for war in the world only takes a small amount of steel.

    Starving people, hurting people (medical care), dependant people (legal drugs) are susceptible to Promises. We should not be blinded by those Promises being made day in day out. Germany's people wanted to change their miserable existence, and had it not been for U.S. efforts after the war, those still alive in Germany would have been worse off than the starving Germans of the 1920s. Some may scoff at analogies I am making here, that the U.S. has similarities to Germany, but here's one fact to consider:

    The U.S. has also received a large sum of money from Central Bankers - to eradicate "Terrorism" from the world. Do you see the parallels? Regardless the moral and platform differences in the Nazi regime and the growing Big Government of the U.S., one similarity remains and is disturbing, both nations have been fed funds from Central Banks to fight wars that really do not hold value to their people.

    It's a complicated process to explain how these Central Bankers work and how they make money, but let me explain a couple of scenarios, and these are not the only possibilities - many hundreds could play out. Central Bankers earn money from national debt. It's steady income, and while the percentages they earn aren't high compared to other ventures, you simply cannot "invest" or wager really BIG money more than you can with entire nations' debt accounts. Think about it - who is making more money right now on interest, a credit card issuer with all the defaults due to job losses, and largess bureacracy necessary to service all those customers, or a Central Banker who maintains debt with single nations in very large amounts? Who is less likely to default on their loans? Nations, of course, and since the same Central Bankers get to control how much cash is printed and produced electronically, the game is played by the Dealer, get it? Would you trust a card Dealer who gets to see cards to play Poker with you? Of course not, but that's how Central Bankers are, they're both in the know and in the game. They also are in the know for who gets what from all the government debt, in many cases. This is another major way Central Bankers make money on their own personal and bank assets - they invest in things that they perceive (know) will get the government's winning bid or decision. Defense contractors, agricultural projects, environmental projects and initiatives, drug decisions and (forced) innoculations -- don't think of this as "inside information" either. Laws aren't designed to take down these elite of the elite. The more the government spends, the more money the Central Bankers make in two ways:
    1. The national debt total increases, giving the Central Bank a larger gain on the interest on the debt.
    2. The government spending goes to companies that the Central Bank (and/or its members) know will get the funds, and they're (often) prior invested within.

    Why should we fear what the elite want for the world? Many people on earth today (if not most) have a miserable existence. Percentage wise of the billions on earth, most people live far below a global poverty line. U.S. citizens are quickly joining those ranks, although our perspective is different for now, it could get much worse in the coming years. It seems like we don't mind sliding further into debt, further into a trap, as long as the Promises keep coming. Again, why to fear what the elite want for the world? Because it will only make that miserable existence even worse. The fact is, miserable people are at least alive. Under an elitist system, they will be dead. Some people certainly will be made happy - at the expense of the miserable (and dead). Elites have also proven over and over that they desire culling the world of "excess" and our wars have proven that. I will close with this - the reason the very first Central Bank (England) formed, was to fund a war.
    BM
    Last edited by Beached Male; 08-30-2009 at 03:33 PM.
    I've been lurking...

  10. #40
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    Hey Cary,

    I understand what you mean. I just get very tired of people at these public meetings only pulling out the Right to bear arms part of the Constitution. I doubt most of them have actually read or thought past that one line item.
    That and the ones who don't get that Medicaid IS a federal program.

    And I (controversially, I'm sure) see nothing wrong with socialised medicine.
    It's better than nothing at all and losing your house due to a medical crisis.
    Bet that Dr is enjoying his weekly Wed half day off golfing, the lawyer out on his fancy boat and the insurance guy tropical vacationing.

    BM--Parallels of "Insurance Companies" to "Central Bankers", when applied to the current healthcare industry.

    That's why there'll never be real health reform here...too many lobbyists with too much $$ to be made from the insurance, medical and law professions.

    And you're right, governments thrive on the blind eyes of the masses.

    That's why I fully believe our system has been actively promoting mediocrity (or less) in education, to keep the general population under control.

    World history? What's that?

    Americans get long, drawn-out, boring schooling on battle tactics of the Revolutionary & Civil Wars, then the teachers try to cram the rest of an America-centric history into that last 6 weeks of class.

    Hey, let's cut the advanced learning classes, arts programs and ban evolution talk! We can't have artists, geniuses, free-thinkers, other faiths, scientists and teachers around...they're the first ones to get rid of, to keep people from questioning things (ala most any war)!

    Alot of this comes under the guise of "we can't have anybody's feelings getting hurt in school, so we don't want to encourage excellence because not everyone's capable."

    Kim
    Last edited by msmith1; 08-31-2009 at 10:38 PM.
    My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.
    ~Dalai Lama

    I reject your reality and substitute my own.
    ~Adam Savage

  11. #41
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    Originally posted by Beached Male
    This website will challenge what you consider the "norms" in your faith and in science. Both "evolutionists" and Christians are surprised at concepts where their going assumptions are challenged by both reason and physical evidence. If you choose to read some of the articles here, beware, you may not ever have the same perspective on Creation, Evolution, and what man "was" ever again...
    http://s8int.com/index.html
    Navigating the pages can be problematic - use the "next" link at the bottom of each page, but unfortunately it doesn't list which page you're on as you go through each section.

    BM
    Interesting website, and I have always been fascinated with the Flood, which all cultures on the planet tell stories of.
    I am the winner in any event.

  12. #42
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    Queen,
    Of course all cultures have a flood story - they all would have branched from the Noah family line, and verbal history would have been the norm after the flood. Let's face it, even grandkids forget their grandparents' birthdays these days. How much more is forgotten with time beyond Noah? Just something to think about...
    I enjoy reading about the possibilities of how advanced man could have been before the flood. It is...staggering to think about, especially in the context of Giza pyramids and such.

    Oh, if we all need a comedy break with decent musical accompaniment, try this one on:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0
    BM
    I've been lurking...

  13. #43
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    Tim Hawkins clip

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0

    If I botched the link search Tim Hawkins "Government Can" on YouTube. Good for a giggle.

    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




  14. #44
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    Constitution Day

    For Constitution Day, September 17th

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s7yB_v7KNI

    This is from 2006. Can't get the link to work. Anyway, Glen Beck had a segment today- looking for that, too.

    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




  15. #45
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    Originally posted by msmith1
    I fully believe our system has been actively promoting mediocrity (or less) in education, to keep the general population under control.

    Absolutely 100% correct. Very well said.
    The world will always turn, with or without your point of view...

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