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Thread: Chick-Fil-A

  1. #16
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    I'm not a big fan of unattributed quotes. Looks like you went to some web sites - pulled outrageous quotes (for some reason Hitler always arrives on scene in these situations) and now want a response.

    Go to the actual FRC site if you want to know what they believe - don't rely on secondary websites. For all I know , you are using LGBT Hate Groups (see how that term is toxic to freedom of speech?) to gather you information.

    Since you made the assertion that these are "Hate Groups" (and yes that term is Orwellian) - you also get the burden of proof. I think that label is a tool to squelch free debate and discussion.

    People are free in this country. They are free to make decisions on how they want to live their lives and that is a great thing. Demanding that your fellow citizens ratify your decisions has nothing to do with freedom.

    Demanding that your fellow citizens create the legal structure to make certain people feel better about their personal decisions is not a freedom movement - it is actually a movement to limit freedom. People just miss it because they are so caught up in their personal desire for validation of their choices.

  2. #17
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    Full Stop.

    Please answer these questions, otherwise I'm not interested in spending more time on this with you.

    OK, Regardless of the "historical" definition and "all of a sudden" changing its definition: would you have said the same about women's right to vote? "Suddenly we're re-defining it?". Or slavery? "Suddenly we're trying to eliminate it"? Or civil rights?

  3. #18
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    Just adding my 2 muse-y cents here. Okay, maybe 3.

    I was raised in the Catholic Church. It was a good upbringing. It provided structure and a constructive outlook for a young person, at least from my perspective. I went to Catholic school and it was a good education that taught me to develop my skills and solve problems. It taught me that women could run things (in the secular world, at least). I have to say though, decades of deep immersion gave me, I think, a pretty solid understanding of what Jesus was about.

    Over time, I have found myself distanced from the Church for a variety of reasons, but I don't feel particularly distanced from Jesus and his teachings. I feel that the Bible has value, but given that it was written thousands of years ago, should be interpreted reasonably, within the context of its times. I think if Jesus showed up today, he would say, "Please use common sense when reading this book. It's a guideline. If you live your life in the spirit of the teachings most of the time, you'll be okay." Consequently, I am both fascinated and flummoxed by those who parse the text of the Bible for reassurance that their negative actions and words against others have support from on High. Seriously. In challenging times, I would hope the Bible would be a solace and inspiration to people, not an excuse for negativity and misunderstanding.

    Of course, some of the stories of Jesus include language that folks like to interpret in ways that support their agendas. Whatever. I think there are basic teachings that make the most sense, thousands of years and many civilizations later. I like to call these next lines, "Jesus' Greatest Hits." Of all the bits of the New Testament, they resonate the most for me in a truly confusing world.

    "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?" I always liked this one because people are waaay too interested in pointing out what they perceive to be errors in other people. None of us is perfect.

    ""Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned." Word. It says to me...live your own life. Make the best choices you can for yourself throughout your life and let other people make their own choices. Life is complicated. For everybody. Don't presume to know what other people are going through or what experiences have brought them to their current circumstances. Reckoning is for God to sort out, not the rest of us.

    And then the best one. “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ I like this one so much because it is unequivocal. He didn't say "love your neighbor who looks like you" or "love your neighbor who is without sin" or "love some of your neighbors." He meant everybody. Period. And so, what is loving about bullying people through public speech or private machinations? What is loving about oppressing people? About lessening the quality of their lives through denial of equal rights? In my very humble opinion, there is no love in any of this.

    As I said at the beginning, I have distanced myself from a strict adherence to the Church specifically and often look far beyond Christianity for inspiration and spiritual nourishment. This is the time that I live in and I think good ideas come from all kinds of places and connect with us at different times in our lives. I think there are many people who take a similar approach.

    I am hopeful that I live in a time when things change and evolve in a direction that is nurturing and caring toward other people. I want to believe that is possible.
    Lisa



  4. #19
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    Muse, I love it. And you are wise beyond your years. And much more tactful than I. ;-)

  5. #20
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    Lisa - I agree with you. We all have our personal issues to deal with - and it is best to focus there.

    I also think people should be allowed to live their lives any way they wish to live them - so long as they aren't harming anyone else.

    But after they make their choice, they can't demand affirmation from society, universal acceptance, or state approval. that is not part of the deal - that isn't freedom.

    Most people should be good with that. If someone is happy, they can stop demanding everyone else notice - just be happy.

    What I think about their choice shouldn't matter.

    Just don't use the full force of government to tell me that I can't think certain thoughts; say certain things; and reject certain behaviors.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    Full Stop.

    Please answer these questions, otherwise I'm not interested in spending more time on this with you.
    The reason I didn;t answer your question is because it is silly. Are you some kind of universalist? If I think women should be allowed to vote then I must accept everything?

    Universal suffrage has absolutely NOTHING to do with gay marriage.

    It also has nothing to do with race.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjelephant View Post
    The reason I didn;t answer your question is because it is silly.
    Well that was rude. You've just convinced me that your not worth my time. G'day.

  8. #23
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    "...Literally - the definition of marriage has been the same throughout human history - and suddenly in the 21st century we are re-defining it? And anyone against that definition is a "hater?" You sound like a totalitarian - sorry.

    And in case you missed it - the Family Research Council was attacked today by a crazed gunman who was a volunteer at a LGBT community center. The organization this lunatic targeted was the Family Research Council - which is the very same group labeled as a "hate group" because they are pro-life and against gay marriages.

    That is the very same "Hate Group" that the Chick Fil A owner and CEO donates his money to. And whether you know it or not - that is the very same group you referred to when you said Chick Fil A supports "hate groups"

    The FRC is not a hate group. They just have different opinions than you do on gay marriage. But they have been dehumanized because they have a different opinion.

    That's how lunatics feel empowered to put a gun in a Chick Fil A bag (isn't he a funny murderer to do that? So clever!) and go out looking to commit murder.[/QUOTE]


    Regarding marriage, not so fast:

    History of Marital Customs on the Side of Same-Sex Marriage
    Jun 24, 2012
    "Those fighting gay marriage say ‘traditional marriage’ has always been between a man and a woman. But marriage is not an unchanging institution—and same-sex unions have a long history," says ‘Origins of Sex’ author Faramerz Dabhoiwala.
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-marriage.html

    FRC has been a designated hate group by the SPLC for many years:

    The Family Research Council, etc., —which has supported Chick-fil-A, the fast food chain that has donated millions of dollars to anti-gay organizations, including “reparative therapy” groups like Exodus International-- (Freedom,yeah baby!)

    Ideology: Anti-Gay

    "The Family Research Council (FRC) bills itself as “the leading voice for the family in our nation’s halls of power,” but its real specialty is defaming gays and lesbians. The FRC often makes false claims about the LGBT community based on discredited research and junk science. The intention is to denigrate LGBT people in its battles against same-sex marriage, hate crimes laws, anti-bullying programs and the repeal of the military’s “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy.

    To make the case that the LGBT community is a threat to American society, the FRC employs a number of “policy experts” whose “research” has allowed the FRC to be extremely active politically in shaping public debate. Its research fellows and leaders often testify before Congress and appear in the mainstream media. It also works at the grassroots level, conducting outreach to pastors in an effort to “transform the culture.”

    In Its Own Words

    “Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement.”
    — Robert Knight, FRC director of cultural studies, and Frank York, 1999

    “[Homosexuality] … embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion.”
    — Steven Schwalm, FRC senior writer and analyst, in “Desecrating Corpus Christi,” 1999

    “One of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the ‘prophets' of a new sexual order.”
    -1999 FRC pamphlet, Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex with Boys.

    “[T]he evidence indicates that disproportionate numbers of gay men seek adolescent males or boys as sexual partners.”
    — Timothy Dailey, senior research fellow, “Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse,” 2002

    “While activists like to claim that pedophilia is a completely distinct orientation from homosexuality, evidence shows a disproportionate overlap between the two. … It is a homosexual problem.”
    — FRC President Tony Perkins, FRC website, 2010

    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...search-council

    Absolutely, no hate going on there at all. And, if all the FRC wanted was to allow individuals their "freedom," then they would not spend so much time attempting to curtail the civil rights of others.

    And, certain people might want to read this article, since it is the right wingers who have been consistently spewing hate speech and violence.

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/08...ken-seriously/

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pupmunchkin View Post

    In Its Own Words ...
    Hi Pup,

    I had the same quotes above in a previous post. cjelephant dismissed it since I didn't provide direct links to where the quotes came from, and then told me to, I quote him: "Go to the actual FRC site if you want to know what they believe - don't rely on secondary websites."

    Lots of the quotes included did come from the FRC's website. However when you try to look them up, they've been deleted. Poking around, it appears they have a habit of scrubbing history when they get noticed. They'll say outrageous things for their membership to read in their newsletters, then delete them when the press notices them and links to them. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

    Well, Archive.org to the rescue. Here's just one of the articles that the FRC has scrubbed:

    http://web.archive.org/web/200009181...misc/bl057.pdf

    The above is the one that has the "Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement" quote. The document offers "proof" of this from quotes from pedophiles and lots of references to NAMBLA, calling them all "the homosexual movement".

    Here's another whopper: "The homosexual rights movement has tried to distance itself from pedophilia, but only for public relations purposes."

    This whole thing is a fear piece, with the intent of having people walk away thinking "OMG! THE GAYS ARE OUT TO GET OUR CHILDREN".

  10. #25
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    Without wishing to offend anyone, I'd like to express my position on this subject (as well as my support for the comments of Jeff, musegirl, Nick & pupmunchkin).

    So, rather than ramble on myself, I give you instead the typically wise words of the great Stewart Lee:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw
    The world will always turn, with or without your point of view...

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert M View Post
    So, rather than ramble on myself, I give you instead the typically wise words of the great Stewart Lee:
    Oh, that was fantastic... thanks for sharing!

    "I'm not interested in facts, they just cloud my judgement". <-- quote of the day

  12. #27
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    When you quote the Southern Poverty Law Center it is not effective.

    The SPLC is not a reliable source - prone to lying. The FRC has a website. Go to that website and feel free to link to that.

    However, I am always amused when people who profess their commitment to diversity advocate criminalizing thought.

    "Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death." - Winston Smith

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    Oh, that was fantastic... thanks for sharing!

    "I'm not interested in facts, they just cloud my judgement". <-- quote of the day
    that is a funny quote. And it's a pretty funny video of that Scottish comedian.

    Of course, since we are interested in facts - it is important to get the facts about ancient Greece correct.

    Homosexuality in Ancient Greece was almost exclusively pederasty. That is - men having sex with pubescent and pre-pubrscent boys. (What the comic referred to as the "highest form of love in the Greek culture")

    There is great irony in that isn't there?

    Considering the moral outrage in this thread regarding the assertion by the FRC that homosexuals wish to lower the age of consent. And yet the comedian in the video seems to be unaware of the actual history.

    Facts are stubborn things.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjelephant View Post
    The FRC has a website. Go to that website and feel free to link to that.
    I did. You ignored it.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert M View Post
    Without wishing to offend anyone, I'd like to express my position on this subject (as well as my support for the comments of Jeff, musegirl, Nick & pupmunchkin).

    So, rather than ramble on myself, I give you instead the typically wise words of the great Stewart Lee:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw
    HAHAHA, brilliant! Thanks Robert.

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