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Thread: Granting Rights & Taking Them Away

  1. #16
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    Congressman Ron Paul's Farewell Speech

    from November 14, 2012

    after serving 12 terms over 24 years in Congress, Dr. Paul is retiring in December.
    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4161883

    "I have a few thoughts as to why the people of a country like ours, once the freest and most prosperous, allowed the conditions to deteriorate to the degree that they have.

    Freedom, private property, and enforceable voluntary contracts, generate wealth. In our early history we were very much aware of this. But in the early part of the 20th century our politicians promoted the notion that the tax and monetary systems had to change if we were to involve ourselves in excessive domestic and military spending. That is why Congress gave us the Federal Reserve and the income tax. The majority of Americans and many government officials agreed that sacrificing some liberty was necessary to carry out what some claimed to be “progressive” ideas. Pure democracy became acceptable.

    They failed to recognized that what they were doing was exactly opposite of what the colonists were seeking when they broke away from the British.

    Some complain that my arguments makes no sense, since great wealth and the standard of living improved for many Americans over the last 100 years, even with these new policies.

    But the damage to the market economy, and the currency, has been insidious and steady. It took a long time to consume our wealth, destroy the currency and undermine productivity and get our financial obligations to a point of no return. Confidence sometimes lasts longer than deserved. Most of our wealth today depends on debt.

    The wealth that we enjoyed and seemed to be endless, allowed concern for the principle of a free society to be neglected. As long as most people believed the material abundance would last forever, worrying about protecting a competitive productive economy and individual liberty seemed unnecessary.

    This neglect ushered in an age of redistribution of wealth by government kowtowing to any and all special interests, except for those who just wanted to left alone. That is why today money in politics far surpasses money currently going into research and development and productive entrepreneurial efforts.

    The material benefits became more important than the understanding and promoting the principles of liberty and a free market. It is good that material abundance is a result of liberty but if materialism is all that we care about, problems are guaranteed.

    The crisis arrived because the illusion that wealth and prosperity would last forever has ended. Since it was based on debt and a pretense that debt can be papered over by an out-of-control fiat monetary system, it was doomed to fail. We have ended up with a system that doesn’t produce enough even to finance the debt and no fundamental understanding of why a free society is crucial to reversing these trends.

    If this is not recognized, the recovery will linger for a long time. Bigger government, more spending, more debt, more poverty for the middle class, and a more intense scramble by the elite special interests will continue.

    Without an intellectual awakening, the turning point will be driven by economic law. A dollar crisis will bring the current out-of-control system to its knees."

    "Why should anyone be surprised that Congress has no credibility, since there’s such a disconnect between what politicians say and what they do?

    Is there any explanation for all the deception, the unhappiness, the fear of the future, the loss of confidence in our leaders, the distrust, the anger and frustration? Yes there is, and there’s a way to reverse these attitudes. The negative perceptions are logical and a consequence of bad policies bringing about our problems. Identification of the problems and recognizing the cause allow the proper changes to come easy.

    Too many people have for too long placed too much confidence and trust in government and not enough in themselves. Fortunately, many are now becoming aware of the seriousness of the gross mistakes of the past several decades. The blame is shared by both political parties. Many Americans now are demanding to hear the plain truth of things and want the demagoguing to stop. Without this first step, solutions are impossible.

    Seeking the truth and finding the answers in liberty and self-reliance promotes the optimism necessary for restoring prosperity. The task is not that difficult if politics doesn’t get in the way." ~ Dr. Paul

    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




  2. #17
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    More from Ron Paul's Farewell Speech

    "After over 100 years we face a society quite different from the one that was intended by the Founders. In many ways their efforts to protect future generations with the Constitution from this danger has failed. Skeptics, at the time the Constitution was written in 1787, warned us of today’s possible outcome. The insidious nature of the erosion of our liberties and the reassurance our great abundance gave us, allowed the process to evolve into the dangerous period in which we now live.

    Today we face a dependency on government largesse for almost every need. Our liberties are restricted and government operates outside the rule of law, protecting and rewarding those who buy or coerce government into satisfying their demands. Here are a few examples:

    Undeclared wars are commonplace.

    Welfare for the rich and poor is considered an entitlement.

    The economy is overregulated, overtaxed and grossly distorted by a deeply flawed monetary system.

    Debt is growing exponentially.

    The Patriot Act and FISA legislation passed without much debate have resulted in a steady erosion of our 4th Amendment rights.

    Tragically our government engages in preemptive war, otherwise known as aggression, with no complaints from the American people.

    The drone warfare we are pursuing worldwide is destined to end badly for us as the hatred builds for innocent lives lost and the international laws flaunted. Once we are financially weakened and militarily challenged, there will be a lot resentment thrown our way.

    It’s now the law of the land that the military can arrest American citizens, hold them indefinitely, without charges or a trial.

    Rampant hostility toward free trade is supported by a large number in Washington.

    Supporters of sanctions, currency manipulation and WTO trade retaliation, call the true free traders “isolationists.”

    Sanctions are used to punish countries that don’t follow our orders.

    Bailouts and guarantees for all kinds of misbehavior are routine.

    Central economic planning through monetary policy, regulations and legislative mandates has been an acceptable policy.

    Excessive government has created such a mess it prompts many questions:

    Why are sick people who use medical marijuana put in prison?

    Why does the federal government restrict the drinking of raw milk?

    Why can’t Americans manufacturer rope and other products from hemp?

    Why are Americans not allowed to use gold and silver as legal tender as mandated by the Constitution?

    Why is Germany concerned enough to consider repatriating their gold held by the FED for her in New York? Is it that the trust in the U.S. and dollar supremacy beginning to wane?

    Why do our political leaders believe it’s unnecessary to thoroughly audit our own gold?

    Why can’t Americans decide which type of light bulbs they can buy?

    Why is the TSA permitted to abuse the rights of any American traveling by air?

    Why should there be mandatory sentences—even up to life for crimes without victims—as our drug laws require?

    Why have we allowed the federal government to regulate commodes in our homes?

    Why is it political suicide for anyone to criticize AIPAC ?

    Why haven’t we given up on the drug war since it’s an obvious failure and violates the people’s rights? Has nobody noticed that the authorities can’t even keep drugs out of the prisons? How can making our entire society a prison solve the problem?

    Why do we sacrifice so much getting needlessly involved in border disputes and civil strife around the world and ignore the root cause of the most deadly border in the world-the one between Mexico and the US?

    Why does Congress willingly give up its prerogatives to the Executive Branch?

    Why does changing the party in power never change policy? Could it be that the views of both parties are essentially the same?

    Why did the big banks, the large corporations, and foreign banks and foreign central banks get bailed out in 2008 and the middle class lost their jobs and their homes?

    Why do so many in the government and the federal officials believe that creating money out of thin air creates wealth?

    Why do so many accept the deeply flawed principle that government bureaucrats and politicians can protect us from ourselves without totally destroying the principle of liberty?

    Why can’t people understand that war always destroys wealth and liberty?

    Why is there so little concern for the Executive Order that gives the President authority to establish a “kill list,” including American citizens, of those targeted for assassination?

    Why is patriotism thought to be blind loyalty to the government and the politicians who run it, rather than loyalty to the principles of liberty and support for the people? Real patriotism is a willingness to challenge the government when it’s wrong.

    Why is it is claimed that if people won’t or can’t take care of their own needs, that people in government can do it for them?

    Why did we ever give the government a safe haven for initiating violence against the people?

    Why do some members defend free markets, but not civil liberties?

    Why do some members defend civil liberties but not free markets? Aren’t they the same?

    Why don’t more defend both economic liberty and personal liberty?

    Why are there not more individuals who seek to intellectually influence others to bring about positive changes than those who seek power to force others to obey their commands?

    Why does the use of religion to support a social gospel and preemptive wars, both of which requires authoritarians to use violence, or the threat of violence, go unchallenged? Aggression and forced redistribution of wealth has nothing to do with the teachings of the world great religions.

    Why do we allow the government and the Federal Reserve to disseminate false information dealing with both economic and foreign policy?

    Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority?" ~ Congressman Ron Paul

    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




  3. #18
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    Of course he's right in everything he says. The government fattens itself up, expects the public to serve them instead of the other way around, and too many evidently shrug and accept it as the status quo. Someone needs to step forward and take up his causes. He'll go down as a misunderstood statesman, which is really tragic. But he's earned a peaceful retirement, and I'd like to see him enjoy it.


    John
    I don't "go through channels." I dig my own....

  4. #19
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    42 Stupid Alex Jones Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cary C-Troll View Post
    I don’t mean to be so dismissive of Alex Jones either.
    someone IDK sent this to me on Youtube! Not sure why it was sent to me *?* It's pretty funny. I didn't listen to all of it, you get the gist in the first few minutes. Anyway, Enjoy!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwURLwd8pEA

    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




  5. #20
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    Patriocracy

    I found this documentary to be spot on regarding the polarization in American Politics. It's airing on the Documentary Channel and gets straight to the heart of the issue~ how the media fuels the divide, the impact on elections from the SCOTUS' ruling on Citizens United v. FEC, sensationalist blogs & fact-deficient commentary on talk shows we count as 'news' <---ruling our hearts and minds as evident in the scathing memes shared all over social media. It seems we actually enjoy this state of dissonance within the gridlock.

    This is just a 2 minute trailer for the documentary~ hope you'll watch it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mP6vW0nB_U

    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




  6. #21
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    "Money, power and ideology govern America. Not its people."

    Cary, I think that's been the case for some time. Probably for most of my life, if not longer. But now it seems to be more pronounced, and as the clip points out, the divide is as sharp as ever. This is very timely of you to post this, with the so-called "fiscal cliff" coming upon us. And I don't see things getting better. God help us.



    John T.
    I don't "go through channels." I dig my own....

  7. #22
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    from 1998 "Are Libertarians Anti-Government?"

    an FB friend shared this today from The Libertarian Library~
    "A government is a set of institutions through which we adjudicate our disputes, defend our rights, and provide for certain common needs. It derives its authority, at some level and in some way, from the consent of the governed.

    Libertarians want people to be able to live peacefully together in civil society. Cooperation is better than coercion. Peaceful coexistence and voluntary cooperation require an institution to protect us from outside threats, deter or punish criminals, and settle the disputes that will inevitably arise among neighbors— a government, in short. Thus, to criticize a wide range of the activities undertaken by federal and state governments—from Social Security to drug prohibition to out-of-control taxation—is not to be “anti-government.” It is simply to insist that what we want is a limited government that attends to its necessary and proper functions."

    Here's the rest of the publication~

    http://www.libertarianism.org/public...nti-government

    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




  8. #23
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    Cary,
    As you know, I hold to quite conservative views, both morally and fiscally, and agree with much (but not all) of what Mr. Griffin states. One point that I thought should be highlighted is related to the steering of a national economy (most Europeans would not be interested or perhaps not agree with what I state here...). The President does not control nor steer the economy in the U.S. system, but the media sways voters to think he does. In fact, Congress is most responsible for economic policy, as their legislative power is supposed to regulate interstate and international commerce. While I agree that personal income taxes are out of line (and perhaps unnecessary), most modern Americans have no clue how the U.S. government was funded before the personal income tax was started nearly 100 years ago. The U.S. used to fund the government primarily through tariffs and excise taxes. So - if you were a U.S. or foreign corporation and decided to use non-U.S. manufacturing (labor) sources, you could expect to pay dearly by having your product that arrives at U.S. ports to be given a tariff. That tariff was regulated, to ensure that the equivalent U.S. product remained competitive, thus ensuring that the U.S. manufacturing base was protected. Prices on the shelf would be adjusted as result and if you wanted to pay for your British or French made good, it was going to cost you typically at least one penny (or more) more than the U.S. product.

    Excise taxes have also been used, to tack on additional taxes for interstate commerce, and especially used on alcohol and tobacco.

    Export taxes were levied against products going outside the U.S., especially tobacco, and the U.S. government practically survived in the early days from the export of tobacco alone and the fees/taxes collected.

    This is the way our U.S. government is supposed to finance itself, and at the same time protect internal manufacturing. Along the way, corporate executives realized that the modern transportation system was robust enough, and fast enough, that if they leveraged their power through the Congress, they could create a system whereby the tariffs would be eliminated for foreign based manufacturing plants. This opened up a cheaper labor base to a U.S. corporation, while freeing the product of the tariff inbound to U.S. consumers (at...Wal-Mart). This "new" system was dubbed "free trade" except no one ever does their homework and research to see that the "free trade" is primarily one-way, into the U.S. The other countries of the world, predominantly, still have tariffs/excises that are tacked onto U.S. products to keep the price of a U.S. made product higher than their own domestic product. Our education (indoctrination) system in the U.S. is also to blame, as it has become a mouthpiece of those with influence who have literally rewrote curriculum and sponsored grants for economists to push the idea that "free trade" is necessary and good. Keynesian Economists dominate, and predominantly the Federal Reserve funds the grants for those academics in Economics departments across the country. If you have attended a U.S. university and taken micro- or macro-economics classes in college, you have received in the standard propaganda. We Americans have been wired for generations now to believe in this system and that the personal income tax is our duty, our responsibility to the nation, all the while the corporate entities that are now free of tariffs and excises continue to reap the profits for their executives and shareholders. The problem is - we not only sold out many American businesses, they literally packed up and moved overseas to set up their manufacturing elsewhere. The manipulated story kept changing, adjusting, and we were even sold the story that a "Service Economy" is a good thing (laughable!!), as if not only money out of nothing (fiat currency) is bad enough, now the jobs are created out of nothing of physical substance either, but we're supposed to hope that all these services that we all want will create enough monetary purchasing power to go around. It hasn't, but those jobs were a short-term boon that helped slow the slide down the slippery slope. So here we are, with the Service Economy jobs also going overseas (customer service in India, etc.), and we hope it gets better.

    The only way the U.S. gets better is for Congress to renew its power to legislate interstate and international commerce, and it's not the President that does this stuff. Unfortunately, as stated in other threads here, the political system is bolstered by so much money from these same "free trade" corporations and their lawyers, that we're likely never to overcome this change. Instead, it literally takes disaster, hunger, etc. to make people wake up and demand change. Unfortunately, even if Americans want that change now, the cost to restart manufacturing in the U.S. will be too costly for most products unless there were tariffs that made competing products so expensive they're nearly un-purchasable. This is a wicked problem, but I would encourage Americans who do understand this stuff to first and foremost buy domestic/local products, turn your back on cheap imports where you can, and write your Congressman to express your desire to see a return to tariffs and protection of U.S. manufacturing.
    BM
    I've been lurking...

  9. #24
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    I appreciate your thoughtful reply, Joe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beached Male View Post
    Our education (indoctrination) system in the U.S. is also to blame, as it has become a mouthpiece of those with influence who have literally rewrote curriculum and sponsored grants for economists to push the idea that "free trade" is necessary and good. Keynesian Economists dominate, and predominantly the Federal Reserve funds the grants for those academics in Economics departments across the country. If you have attended a U.S. university and taken micro- or macro-economics classes in college, you have received in the standard propaganda. We Americans have been wired for generations now to believe in this system
    BM
    Griffin touches on ‘indoctrination through education’ in The Chasm ~ see “A Strategy to Control the Teaching of History” & “The Birth of Progressive Education” ~ it’s scary actually. I’m sure you’re already familiar with Mises Institute (Austrian economics)~ something I discovered through Tom Woods vids on Youtube, and they offer classes online. Yes, if I didn’t say it before, I agree we benefit from revenues from excise taxes, tariffs and even property taxes. This could be dated information, but roughly a third of revenues or more in the US come from income tax. But I bet we’d not realize the loss of revenue in eliminating income tax if we’d downsize government and cut out the wasteful spending. But so much attention is drawn to “tax the wealthy and the uber-rich” that little consideration is given to the notion that income tax is an unnecessary intrusion into all of our wallets. This goes back to the role any of us expects government to play in our lives. The bigger that role, the more it costs us to support it. We’re paying in dollars and paying in loss of privacy.
    I’m attaching a link pros/cons of protectionism and another on free trade.
    http://www.ehow.com/about_5106315_pr...ectionism.html regarding protectionism
    http://www.ehow.com/about_5499492_pr...egulation.html regarding free trade

    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary C-Troll View Post
    I bet we’d not realize the loss of revenue in eliminating income tax if we’d downsize government and cut out the wasteful spending.
    As a libertarian, I am all for eliminating income tax. Please detail the "wasteful spending" that would offset the same revenue.

    But so much attention is drawn to “tax the wealthy and the uber-rich” that little consideration is given to the notion that income tax is an unnecessary intrusion into all of our wallets.
    Much attention but no action. Since the 70s, income inequality has grown massively in both the US and UK.

    We’re paying in dollars and paying in loss of privacy.
    For privacy, see Google. You give the Government too much credit imho.
    The world will always turn, with or without your point of view...

  11. #26
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    the third party presidential debate

    listening to this today. There were two third party debates (with civility) before last year's presidential election, hosted by the Free And Equal Elections Foundation. Sadly, didn't seem to get much attention.


    I don't know what I just said or why.

    From my heart & from my hand
    why don't people understand my intention
    -Weird Science




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